Sighting in

[Aaro]

Hey guys I was out sigting in my .270 for deer season this year and did something that kina intrested me. At my 50yd range was an old bag of tile grout that had been sitting a while and when I got my rifle sighted in like I wanted it I fired a round into the bag of grout. Round was placed      center and entered the bag but never exited. I then dumped the grout out on the ground and this is what was left of it.





The round was Winchester 130grn Silvertips. I halfway expeted the round to exit the bag but I was wrong. Do yall think this ws good or bad results? What tests have yall done on ammo and what was the results.

[Redhawk1]

Any thing that is hard like grout and sand will slow a bullet down quick. I shot my 416 Rigby into a sand bank and found the bullets about 10 inches into the bank.  The same load and bullet went through 2 shoulders on a Water buffalo and was just under the skin on the exit side. I would say sand is not a good judge of penetration.  JMHO.  

[Land_Owner]

Weigh all of the recovered parts.  I suspect from what I can see in the first photograph that the remains weigh considerably less than the original 130 grains.  In that case, a lot of your round (i.e. the lead core) exited the grout.  Check the grout bag for a hole in the rear.  

There are few, if any, poor quality bullets in standard manufacturer's rounds on store shelves in 2005.  Separation of the jacket from the core is no indication of poor performance of the bullet.

How did your fired groups turn out?  Your grouping is a better indication of the progress of your preparation toward hunting this season.

Fair Chase
Land Owner

[Aaro]

The weight of the left over part is 58grns alot less than 130grns. Nothing exited the bag. There was no hole in the sides or back although you are right about the lead slug missing all that is left over is the jacket so the slug must still be in the grout. Ill look again tomorrow to see if I can find it. My groups were very good about 1/2 inch at 50.

[Lawdog]

The weight of the left over part is 58grns alot less than 130grns. Nothing exited the bag. There was no hole in the sides or back although you are right about the lead slug missing all that is left over is the jacket so the slug must still be in the grout. Ill look again tomorrow to see if I can find it. My groups were very good about 1/2 inch at 50.

While I agree with 'Redhawk1' that grout, sand and such isn't a good media for penetration, what did happened does show that your bullet fragmented.  Good idea of what might happen if you hit a hard bone with that load.   :idea:   Something to keep in mind.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

Lawdog is correct. Your bullet in my opinion failed to maintain it's integrity. When I recovered the Barnes X bullets from the sand mound and the Buffalo, I retained 100 % of the bullet weight.  That is why I almost exclusively use Barnes X and Barnes TSX bullets. I get great penetration and 100% bullet weight retention.  

[Land_Owner]

Redhawk:  Not to take away from your 1,000# to 1,200# buffalo hunting needs; IMO 130# to 150# whitetailed deer do not need 100% bullet weight retention, end to end penetration, or the expense associated with premium ammunition - unless they're the rounds that are the most accurate in that rifle in which case I want the manufacturer's whole lot of them.  

We can agree that

an old bag of tile grout that had been sitting a while

has wicked up moisture, and "set" some or all of the bag's contents making it a poor indicator.  It is also fun to recover spend bullets and speculate about their potential performance on game.

Aaro:  1/2" groups at 50 yards is pretty good performance with factory ammunition.  Is that off-hand or from a bench?  Shot placement is an important issue.  The most difficult concern however is participation by the deer.

Good Luck
Fair Chase
Land Owner

[victorcharlie]

I'd say the bullet performed just right in that medium........ even hitting a bone, I doubt the bullet would fragment to that extent.   Deer bullets should expand in the soft tissue of a deer.......that's how they do their damage.......and why most states outlaw non expanding ammo........

Many years ago, I had a friend who used military ball type ammo......the deer he shot took 11 rounds before going down, 2 directly through the heart.

Again, Remington corelots have probably killed more deer than any other bullet made.........with your winchester silver tips scoring millions of deer as well........Don't worry about it, they'll get-r-done.......

[Dave in WV]

You now know how your bullet will perform in rock dust that has somewhat hardened. Grout has nothing to do with living tissue. Soak a few phone books and shoot them. Then you'll know how your bullet performs in wet phone books. Living tissue is the only true test and that is after several animals have been harvested.  

[Aaro]

Hey guys I went back this morning and checked for the slug. It was pretty much nonexistent though. I poured water over the grout an found two small pieces of shapreneled lead so my conclusion being that the lead slug also dissolved.To redhawk there are three reasons that i belive you had better weight Renention than I. One is of course the Barnes X bullet Two is you range I imagine your bullet was moving alot slower than mine also the weight of the bullet. To land_owner I was          off a Prone Bipod. Ill be          over a clear cut and ill be using some kind of prop to shoot off of. I have hornady 140grn BTSP Interlocks that I reload mabe ill try them in that same bag filled with sand. Then I might try some other loads just for kicks and giggles! :wink:

[Larry Gibson]

Aaro

Do we have any idea how many little deers have been successfully killed over the years with 130 gr Silvertips out of 270s? And because one disintigrates in grout for crying out loud we question it and yell "bullet failure"? Victor Charlie and land owner have the answer. Quit pondering the sublime and go hunting. If you can't kill a deer with a properly placed 130 Silvertip out of your .270 a premium bullet is not the solution.

Larry Gibson

[Aaro]

Dont turn this into a flame war I never in anyway said or suggested bullet falure. I know that this bullet can kill my father and freinds have killed many deer with this same load. All Im doing is tryin to do some thing to entertain my self and maby learn something in the process. You dont have to come in like the cops and tryin shut shut me down. You have the right to your opinion but please tryin be nice about it

[Aaro]

Refilled the bag with sand and shot the Hornady 140grn BTSP interlocks into it. Results are about the same. There was almost no lead left over, the only difference is that the jacket did not hold together in one piece it broke apart into smaller pieces. My conclusion from this is that the jacket on the hornady bullet is thinner than the one on the winchester. Any of yall got any youd like to try and get back with the results? Mostly everybody can get their hands on sand an something to put it in. Dont limit it to a .270 either Id like to see all types of calibers and rounds! :grin:

[Redhawk1]

Dont turn this into a flame war I never in anyway said or suggested bullet falure. I know that this bullet can kill my father and freinds have killed many deer with this same load. All Im doing is tryin to do some thing to entertain my self and maby learn something in the process. You dont have to come in like the cops and tryin shut shut me down. You have the right to your opinion but please tryin be nice about it

Aaro, you are correct, it does not need to turn ugly.

I just prefer to use bullets that retain there weight. I have used soft point bullets and have had success, but we all have our choices. When I hunt I shoot for the shoulder, so I expect more from a bullet. I only shoot for the vital zone in the rib cage area with my bow. (Lung shot or heart shot) I like to anchor my game down, weather it is deer or bigger game. Hard to run with no shoulders.  :-D

[Aaro]

I found a 130 grn SST from hornady that I had from last year. Ran the same test on it and the results were similar to the interlock but much more dramatic. only located 4 pieces of the jacket from this one.

[Lawdog]

Land_Owner,

IMO 130# to 150# whitetailed deer do not need 100% bullet weight retention, end to end penetration, or the expense associated with premium ammunition

Unless of course the deer runs off and with no exit wound tracking becomes a problem or in case the bullet you are shooting does exactly like the one posted here that fragmented and doesn't reach the vitals.  Had that happen and have seen it happen.  No thank you, I want my bullets to retain most if not all of their original weight and give me an exit wound.  As for the so-called added cost, I am not going to let a few pennies dictate what I use that may very well make the difference whether or not I bring home the bacon or leave it in the hills.  Lawdog
 

[Redhawk1]

 As for the so-called added cost, I am not going to let a few pennies dictate what I use that may very well make the difference whether or not I bring home the bacon or leave it in the hills.  Lawdog
 

Amen brother.  I would and will spend a little more for a bullet I personally know will do what I expect.  

[victorcharlie]

Brothers.......can you spare a dime?

[Redhawk1]

Brothers.......can you spare a dime?

Why do you want to buy some good bullets.... :-D