Author Topic: Another Gonne  (Read 775 times)

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Offline CU_Cannon

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Another Gonne
« on: September 05, 2005, 10:36:38 AM »
I built this a while back mainly for fun.  It only took an hour or two to build.  It is around 7” long and 1 1/4” around with a 5/8” bore.  The bore doesnÂ’t fit anything in particular I built it mainly as a noise maker.  I didnÂ’t really go by any existing design.  I just kind of made it up as I went along.  

These are great fun for the amount of effort put into building.  IÂ’m going to build a Tannenberg once I can get a taper attachment built (thanks Powder Keg).



I know, smoke and fireÂ…  Once I get a chance IÂ’ll get some pictures posted.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Another Gonne
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2005, 01:55:30 PM »
Blued it too!

As you say, great fun for the effort involved!

I'll post pix of two others - on about 4" long 1" in diameter and the other of 1144sp in guess what - a two piece golf-ball launcher.

I HAVE to build several more - there are designs that are so cool looking!


Another interesing thing is that you can use these as walking sticks - and 99% of the folks you meet never know that you're carrying your cannon-on-a-stick with you.  When they do, they're amazed - the key words are "it's a 14th centruy replica".
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Offline Powder keg

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Another Gonne
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2005, 07:05:09 PM »
Nice job!!! One thing you might want to try on your next one is to use a radiused tool in the corners and give your Gonnes a more old timey look. Also for outside radiuses, you can remove quite a bit of metal with a lathe file. Again yours looks great! These are just my observations about other gonnes I've seen.

I like the blueing, What method did you use? I've only used cold blue. I like the results, but it's not very durable.
Wesley P.
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Offline GGaskill

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Another Gonne
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2005, 08:17:48 PM »
You might try the hot tank black oxide process.


    5 lbs. sodium hydroxide (lye)
    2.5 lbs. ammonium nitrate (can use ammonium nitrate fertilizer)
    1 gal. water (distilled is best)

    Heat to 285 deg F in a mild steel container (do not use stainless, it contaminates the solution and gives a bad finish) and immerse objects in hot solution for enough time to get the color you want.  You likely will have to bring the solution temperature up but that happens automatically as the water is boiled out of solution.

    Safety issues: this hot solution is VERY caustic and will eat skin if it gets on you and you don't wash it off immediately with cold water. Wear good eye protection as you won't have time to wash it out of your eyes if any gets there.
GG
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Offline Double D

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Another Gonne
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2005, 02:46:05 AM »
Wear Face shield, rubber gloves and rubber apron when you work with that stuff. Don't wear good clothing. Leather shoes will be eaten by splashes and dripping of this stuff.  

Try to maintain the temperature at 285. You need a thermometer. Temperature may vary at higher altitudes.  You may need to add water  or let water boil off to control temperature. To add water slowly trickle it  down a metal spoon into the solution. Don't pour straight in. You will get a steam explosion.

That solution will also eat concrete, sheetrock, and wood. The high temperature steam from the solution will permeate everything and needs vented.  If not vented it will rot and rust everything.

You need to completely degrease the metal before putting it in the blueing solution, best done in a boiling degreaser solution.  After blueing completely rinse all the solution. this is best done is a in a trickler or flush tank where water flow in one end  of the tank and out the other.

One other thing to consider is take your finished gun down to you local gunsmith and ask him if he does his own blueing.  If he does ask him what he will charge for dipping only, no polish or assembly.  If all he has to do is dip and he is smart, he will be reasonable.

I use to take in blueing at the hourly rate for an aerospace company that brought stuff into my shop .  All I had to do was load the stuff in the baskets and move them from tank to tank.  Later I just sent the baskets back with the finished stuff and they brought them back loaded.  Made some good money doing that and it helped keep the bills paid.

Offline CU_Cannon

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Another Gonne
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2005, 05:05:20 AM »
This one is just cold blued.  IÂ’m not sure if I want to mess around with hot bluing just yet.  Once I get something together that is worth the effort I may try it.  I would like to try rust bluing a piece sometime in the future but again IÂ’ll save the effort for something more worthwhile.  

This one has some rust spots due to being stored in the back of a car for a few weeks.  I like the look though.  Once I cleaned it up a little and oiled it the rust spots made it look older and more authentic.  I may degrease it and let it rust some more.

Offline pyro_tek

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Another Gonne
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2005, 11:02:29 AM »
I like your design. It makes great eye candy static, I hope we get to see it belching out some smoke and fire. What would be a period correct finish for this and other Gonnes?

Great, I came here for the bp, stuck around because of the cannon & mortar, and now y'all are really making me dig myself in deeper with gonnes and finishes :-D Thanks

Offline CU_Cannon

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Another Gonne
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2005, 05:04:05 AM »
From what I've read most gonnes were made of bronze.  Steel was still quite difficult to produce.  

I would say that a finish that would be most appropriate would be rust bluing or browning.  This technique has been around for a long time.  I am sure that the makers of early gonnes would have known about it.  I am experimenting with some home brew "rusting" solutions.  Once I get some results I'll let everyone know.

Gonnes are cheep and easy to build and lots of fun.  This one took a few hours one evening to build and finish.  They are a great way of experimenting with machining and finishing techniques.  

I may post some drawings of different designs that IÂ’ve some up with.

Offline CrufflerSteve

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Another Gonne
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2005, 06:17:04 AM »
Quote from: CU_Cannon
Gonnes are cheep and easy to build and lots of fun.  This one took a few hours one evening to build and finish.  They are a great way of experimenting with machining and finishing techniques.  

I may post some drawings of different designs that IÂ’ve some up with.


I'd be interested in the drawings. Within the next few months I'm going to be househunting and I'm going to be looking for a place that has shop space. I'm a fair woodworker and a poor but improving welder. I'd like to add some metal machinery and skills. Handgonnes are an obvious first step since there's none of those pesky trunnions.

CU - could you give a brief description of the equipment you used and any sources for learning how to use it?

As far as finishing, here's a quote from Benvenuto who hangs out on another board where old things are discussed:
Quote
A lot of original armour have seen from the period is charcoal blued. This is precisely what it means. you heat the metal over a gentle charcoal fire (no smoke or soot), moving it carefully to get as even a blue colour as possible then quenching it, or rubbing it down with vegetable oil or beeswax. you get a slightly mottled finish from this, not a dead even blue like modern chemicals.

Rust browning (with vinegar) has been around for ages too, but I don't think it was too popular until after 1700. Apply vinegar to the degreased and warmed metal, let sit overnight, polish off any loose rust and re-apply. Repeat as many times as you want and then neutralise the acid with bicarb, dry thoroughy and then wax.

Lastly, paint was used a lot. I don't know any authentic mixtures but I would say they had things like shellac and linseed in them. The brown bess, according to many authorities, is so called because early models were generously daubed, stock and barrell both with brown, rustproofing paint. I've seen painted helmets from the 1300's so it stands to reason handgones may have been painted too.

Offline CU_Cannon

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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2005, 09:54:13 AM »
A handgonne would be a great first project.  You start with a piece of steel and drill three holes in it; one for the bore one for the vent and one to attach it to a stick.  Everything else is just for show.  If you had to you could probably build one using only a drill press.  It might not be perfect but it would work.  

I would start with a piece of 1.5” to 2” steel and a simple design and then get machining.  Read a few books on machining but most of what you will learn will be by doing.  

If you would like I can give a step by step description of what I did.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Another Gonne
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2005, 10:14:12 AM »
Quote from: pyro_tek
I like your design. It makes great eye candy static, I hope we get to see it belching out some smoke and fire. What would be a period correct finish for this and other Gonnes?

Great, I came here for the bp, stuck around because of the cannon & mortar, and now y'all are really making me dig myself in deeper with gonnes and finishes :-D Thanks


pyro_tek -

Welcome to the board!  You'll find addictions of many varieties here - using as well as making.  Pick something of your dreams and go for it!

We'd love to see pictures of what you'd like to shoot, and pictures of you shooting them when the time comes!
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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U.S.Army Retired
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Offline claypipe

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Another Gonne
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2005, 08:42:16 AM »
Quote from: GGaskill
You might try the hot tank black oxide process.


    5 lbs. sodium hydroxide (lye)
    2.5 lbs. ammonium nitrate (can use ammonium nitrate fertilizer)
    1 gal. water (distilled is best)

    Heat to 285 deg F in a mild steel container (do not use stainless, it contaminates the solution and gives a bad finish) and immerse objects in hot solution for enough time to get the color you want.  You likely will have to bring the solution temperature up but that happens automatically as the water is boiled out of solution.

    Safety issues: this hot solution is VERY caustic and will eat skin if it gets on you and you don't wash it off immediately with cold water. Wear good eye protection as you won't have time to wash it out of your eyes if any gets there.


Actually, if you want a period finish, you coat the piece with beeswax and bake it at 450 degrees in an oven. Piece will have a nice black finish if done proper. It may take a try or two.