Author Topic: Obviously their are more people who want crossbow hunting (Read 2422 times)

jh45gun · « **Reply #30 on:** August 08, 2005, 11:52:48 AM »

Your welome dukkillr and yea Digger probably exagerated a bit I know I could not hold back a bow for that long as your arms get tired holding them out even with out holding a bow back just holding the bow out would make your arms tired. but you can hold a compound back a lot longer then a recurce or longbow expecially with the use of a release. I think that is what digger may have been getting at. You should be able to draw back your bow as your moving to position so I still say that shouldering a xbow gives you about the same amount of movement. I have been shooting bows for 40 years so I think I know a bit about shooting them.

Digger · « **Reply #31 on:** August 08, 2005, 12:31:24 PM »

jsteele,
This was the arguement we used in the 1970's to keep compounds out of the woods the same stupid type arguement that PBS is using to keep xbows from being used. Did you not ever read the Marlow Report.The PBS of NY believe every word of this piece of bovine excreatment.
If your anti xbow this could be your bible.

Digger

jsteele · « **Reply #32 on:** August 08, 2005, 12:55:39 PM »

I do not consider myself anti-crossbow. I will not support crossbows for those who could draw a legal bow during bowseason, though. For physically challenged and aged individuals, I believe crossbows should be universally legal.

Young, strong, and healthy? Grab a bow and start practicing...
That doesn't mean I do not believe that crossbows shouldn't have a season of their own. I think that shoving crossbow into gun season is not the fair solution either - they are clearly short range weapons, and therfore more difficult to be successful with then guns.

But they are not the same as hand held and hand drawn bows, and should not be allowed for most during bow season.

Or, at least, that is my opinion. :wink:

Digger · « **Reply #33 on:** August 08, 2005, 01:50:40 PM »

You guys are talking keeping up tradition , but never answered my question about all the tradition of the compound bow. Please explain the long and honorable tradition of the compound bow in hunting, tell me about all the tradition of this bow before 1974 please.
We know you can't.
If you don't want xbows in your woods , you are anti-xbow. I'm sure in your heart of hearts you don't give a thought to a disabled hunters right to be in the woods.

Digger

jsteele · « **Reply #34 on:** August 08, 2005, 02:17:32 PM »

Quote

I'm sure in your heart of hearts you don't give a thought to a disabled hunters right to be in the woods.

You would be very wrong. I have written 3 letters each, this year to my state senator and assemblyman about allowing crossbow for physically challenged and older bowhunters.

In terms of the tradition of a compound - you don't have a leg to stand on.

A compound represents the evolution of a longbow just as today's crossbow represents an evolution of yesteryear's crossbow.

Show me a law that will limit crossbows to wood and iron and I'll support it. Synthetic stocks, composite prodds (oops, I mean limbs), red dot scopes, cams - doesn't look much like the ones you see in the movies, now does it?

A bow is still a bow. A crossbow is not. Give me a Matthews and a 10 pt, show them to a medieval archer, and I'll betcha he would identify them correctly as bow and crossbow.

Digger · « **Reply #35 on:** August 08, 2005, 03:11:47 PM »

Quote

You would be very wrong. I have written 3 letters each, this year to my state senator and assemblyman about allowing crossbow for physically challenged and older bowhunters.

PM me a copy of your letters all I'll apologize to you for what I said.

AS for recognition of a crossbow and compound you are joking of course. theres less difference between a modern and medievel xbow than between long bow and compound. A 12th century archer certainly could use a modern xbow long before he figured out a compound.

[/quote]

Digger · « **Reply #36 on:** August 08, 2005, 03:13:47 PM »

sorry, double clutched posted twice

dukkillr · « **Reply #37 on:** August 08, 2005, 06:15:39 PM »

If I have to write a letter on behalf of disabled hunters to have a viable opinion I'll do it. I don't ask for written proof to believe people, but apparently you do. Ask me who to send it to and I'll send you a copy, or even the letter itself and you can send it on.

jh45gun · « **Reply #38 on:** August 08, 2005, 06:18:23 PM »

In reply to Dukkillr I do not think any one is trying to insult you here I know I am not and I am disabled so I can use a xbow but to me it boils down to choice, if person x and person y can use a xbow why cannot person z because he wants to hunt with one but cannot as he is old or disabled? Some folks just may like the xbow over the bow and if they use it better then they should be allowed to hunt with one. I some one said no compounds tomorrow and every one has to go back to recurves or long bows their would be a cry over the land like you have never heard. It would be the WHINE of the CENTURY~

Like I said it is almost like a reverse discrimination. For too long the crossbow has been thought of as a evil weapon. Even the Catholic Church back in the old days were mad about them as they could defeat the knights armor and every one knows the Knights were the noblemen who could afford to give dough to the church. Even in todays movies they are portrayed as a weapon of assasination yet they do not show all the primitive tribes that use them for hunting still today as a weapon of choice. It would be different if they were outlawed by all groups but since some can use them I think every one should be able if they desire. Lets face it I know all too well that the bowhunters to some do not have such a lilly white reputation either when it comes to hunting, wounding deer and not getting them, Hunting after hours because the bow is quiet, Tresspassing because the bow is quiet, ect ect ect. Yea I know not all do that but enough do to be known yet they badmouth other forms of hunting because it does not fit into their little nitch. Too bad as I feel using xbow or longbow or compound the bottom line is harvesting the animal to the best of your ability not trying to outlaw a legit form of archery for anyone.

dukkillr · « **Reply #39 on:** August 08, 2005, 06:44:09 PM »

Handicapped hunters can use xbows because they are incapable of hunting otherwise. Able bodied people who can use a bow during bow season should do so.

We allow handicapped people to park next to buildings. Students with learning disabilities get extra time on the ACT and SAT. This is no different. It's an advantage given to those with a physical disadvantage.

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #40 on:** August 08, 2005, 10:34:05 PM »

Good debate.Well I have read everybodies post here on this topic,so I might as well put my $0.02 in.I see each person view on xbows vs bows in general.I understand where each one is coming from.I don't agree with some,but that's what makes up human nature.I use a xbow.Iam not hanicap in any way,well maybe a little mental :lol: .I have no problem using a compound bow,but I choose not to.Just like I choose not to use "black powder" weapons.I don't care who likes them,that's their business;just like the xbow.As long as it is a "legal" means of hunting I'm all for it.Just like dog hunting;I don't like,don't do it;but as long as it's legal to do so.more power to those that like it.Xbows are legal in Alabama,and as long as they are,I will be hunting with one........nuff said and "HAPPY/GOOD HUNTING" to all by whatever means that is legal and you see fit....................Rick

jh45gun · « **Reply #41 on:** August 09, 2005, 10:31:02 AM »

I agree Rick I think it should be up to the user to decide what he wants to hunt with bow or xbow. I have shoit deer with a pistol too during gun season while others were using rifles why because I wanted to and it was legal to do so even though most folks would choose a rifle. why it all boiled down to choice I think xbows should be no different if you want to use one you should be able to.

jsteele · « **Reply #42 on:** August 09, 2005, 01:24:54 PM »

[quote="Digger
AS for recognition of a crossbow and compound you are joking of course. theres less difference between a modern and medievel xbow than between long bow and compound. A 12th century archer certainly could use a modern xbow long before he figured out a compound.
[/quote]

YOU are joking, of course.

You aren't playing fair. You lowballed the crossbow pic. I specified 10 pt, but let us settle for representative. I looked at my Cabela's catalog today - 21 xbows, ALL have a scope, 3 are recurve. You are either spinning or cheating. Let's agree that you are only spinning.

Check out some of these. They look like guns to me...
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=212117

But I agree - "A 12th century archer certainly could use a modern xbow long before he figured out a compound." That's a large part of the current controversy, anyone can point and shoot a crossbow.

jsteele · « **Reply #43 on:** August 09, 2005, 01:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Digger

Quote
You would be very wrong. I have written 3 letters each, this year to my state senator and assemblyman about allowing crossbow for physically challenged and older bowhunters.

PM me a copy of your letters all I'll apologize to you for what I said.

Digger, I sent the PM.

Digger · « **Reply #44 on:** August 09, 2005, 01:52:25 PM »

Like 5 of those xbows in that thread are mine. I've seen them. Maybe you were highballing me. It works both ways. Nothing wrong with an AR 31.

Maybe we can get the polititians to give cross bows their own season , say from Oct. 1st to the end Jan. and move bows to another spot on the calender. That way you could still have the woods to yourselves. That would be sweeeet.

Its no worse than what you want for xbowers.

Digger

jsteele · « **Reply #45 on:** August 09, 2005, 02:09:58 PM »

Quote from: Digger

Like 5 of those xbows in that thread are mine. I've seen them. Maybe you were highballing me. It works both ways. Nothing wrong with an AR 31.

Maybe we can get the polititians to give cross bows their own season , say from Oct. 1st to the end Jan. and move bows to another spot on the calender. That way you could still have the woods to yourselves. That would be sweeeet. Its no worse than what you want for xbowers.

Digger

So you sandbagged that picture on purpose?! Shame on you.

Seeing as how my state's bowseason runs from 15OCT to 17NOV this year, that is probably a tough sell for your xbow season. :grin:

I think crossbow's own season is the best compromise. As you so eloquently point out, when is the sticking point.

Since I read so much about how effective crossbows would be as a management tool, I say first 3 weeks of October (Does Only).

Two can play your little game.

jh45gun · « **Reply #46 on:** August 09, 2005, 03:00:13 PM »

Jsteele you did not say what state your from but a lot of states like WI has a bow season that starts in the middle of Sept. ( MN does too) and goes to the end of Dec and or Jan depending on where you hunt. I do not know when MN season ends but I would bet it also is a long one. inbetween that time there are rifle T zone hunts in the end of Oct for certain areas which is a 4 day does only hunt unless your disabled where you could shoot a buck and fill your buck tag. a Rifle take a kid hunting day that is I think in Sept and rifle season for 9 days in Nov and a other 9 day muzzle loader season right after the regular deer season. THen there are T szone hunts for does again. This extends hunting with guns from Oct through Dec at different times so you tell me where they could stuff in a xbow season? Since it is a bow no matter what you anti xbow folks say running it with the current bow season is the only logical answer. THE TERM SHOULD BE CALLED A ARCHERY SEASON INSTEAD OF BOW SEASON SINCE XBOWS ARE A FORM OF ARCHERY THAT WOULD PRETTY MUCH DEFINE IT. Jim

Stalker · « **Reply #47 on:** August 26, 2005, 06:57:56 AM »

first let me start by saying that I have and use several different kinds of bows..... 2 self bows, 1 Howard Hill longbow, 1 Black Widow (take down), 1 Darton compound, 1 Mathews compound and 1 Excalibur crossbow........

the arguments that I have heard against x-bows here are pretty lame and the perception that a x-bow "is not a bow" is ridiculous...... webster's makes it really easy.......

"a weapon that is made of a strip of flexible material (as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent and that is used to propel an arrow".......

"hand drawn and hand held" ..... this is a regulation not a definition (even though P&Y would like to tell you different)........ you can't use a .22 for Elk hunting either during the rifle season but it's still a rifle.... again regulation not definition........

the "it's a gun" is also ridiculous..... ya it's got a stock and ya it's got a trigger.... some facts.... x-bows were around before guns... .... the stock and trigger idea was taken from the x-bow when guns were invented.... in fact x-bows were around before the english longbow... in fact repeating x-bows (CHU-KO-NU) were around before english longbows (23 - 200 AD vs 1000+ AD).... so ALL the talk like "you shoulder it like gun"... etc... should really be you fire a gun like a crossbow (they did come first after all).....

I won't attempt to address the ballistics of v-bows and x-bows because they are the same (even though some don't like to admit it).... but I will say that anyone who talks about getting "busted while drawing" is the reason to restrict x-bows... is just using that as an excuse it's all "smoke and mirrors.... when you are 30ft up in a treestand holding an 80%+ letoff v-bow..... if you draw when you should you won't get "busted" and you will NEVER get busted sitting in a "dog house" or "brickhouse" or all the other shoot through blinds out there...... (haven't heard anyone complaining about those though... hmmm)...

and for the guys that say v-bows are harder to use than x-bows so only v-bows should be legal...... well it's harder to drive standard than it is to drive an automatic.... so what !!!

jh45gun · « **Reply #48 on:** September 02, 2005, 07:23:08 AM »

Thanks Stalker.

ihuntbucks · « **Reply #49 on:** September 03, 2005, 07:02:11 PM »

Well said Stalker.Couldn't have said it better myself :lol: ...........Rick

Laughing Crow · « **Reply #50 on:** September 16, 2005, 06:55:13 PM »

Minnesota season for 2005 funs from 9/17 to 12/31....

Its kind of funny how the anti-crossbow camp keeps coming back to the fact that a crossbow is nothing but a bow on a rifle stock. Seems to me that the crossbow was around far longer than the rifle, therefore the rifle is nothing more than a small cannon on a crossbow stock. And that is a fact!