450 Mongo

[spinafish]

Does anyone have real world experience with the 450 Mongo?? I started playing with it today and boy, has it been fun!  I need a few starting load with a couple of different powders.  I started with 444 Marlin data using the same bullet weight only in 45 caliber, but I'm talking mild XMP-5744 data for lead bullets. I am using a 255 grain cast bullet and hope to move up to the 300 grain Lee cast and the Hornady 300 xtp..any help would be appreacitated..Thanks..

[Barely Tame]

Spinafish,

I've been following the 450 mongo discussion in another string.  Following is an extended quote by Mike P. in that string: [qMikeP Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:00 am    Post subject: 450 Mongo  

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Jim, to answer some of your questions:

I don't know if the .410 shotgun brass is heavy enough to use in the .450 Mongo configuration (although it very well may be.) That is why I use the .444 brass, which is designed to hold more pressure than I'm wanting to shoot in the .450 Mongo. And, forming the .450 Mongo brass is quite cheap and easy to do from the .444.

My first tests of the .410 brass with a full load of No 8 shot worked very well. I used the Lil Gun .410 formula of 13 grains with a Remington SP410 plastic wad column holding a half ounce of shot sparked with a large pistol primer, topped with hot candle wax to hold it all in, and the 45/410 barrel performed beautifully. This combo is enough to take out any snake known to man. At close snake-shooting range of 10 yards or less, the choke is not needed. When I'm in the field, I usually keep the choke in my pocket and out of the barrel, thus giving me instant choice of shot or solid. Usually, I need the shot only for snakes, which can be expected at any time during the hot months of the year. Of course, for targets at farther than 10 yards, the choke should be used as it pulls the shot in much tighter, which is good for maybe 25 or 30 yards or so as are all .410s. Since the consequences of shooting a solid round through the choke can be a destroyed choke, I never have the choke in unless I am expressly hunting game with shot.

For the .450 Mongo configuration, I fireform .444 brass using a 240-grain .44 lead slug which hardly touches the lands as it is fired in the big barrel, but it still flies surprisingly straight. I have used the same powder charge as the .410 Lil Gun formula noted above, 13 grains. I initially used a paper towel wad to fill up some of the air space between the powder and the bullet in the large case, but now I use Dacron, which is usually recommended for such purpose. There is a lot of space for more powder, and I believe that loads that equate to 45/70 performance might be achieved. However, since this is a wildcat, one must experiment carefully. You are drawing the map as you go.

Relative to your question about sizing dies, I use my .45 Colt dies to resize the top of the .450 Mongo case to hold the .45 caliber bullets. Thus far, I have not had to resize the base. If I ever do, I may sacrifice a .45 Colt die by cutting off the top, thus allowing the full .450 Mongo case to be resized to .45 Colt dimensions. An alternative would be to use a .444 die, but, this would size the cases down farther than needed and would necessitate using the .44 bullet for fireforming again or using a graduated punch to open up the mouth to .45. By using a .444 die, you are effectively repeating the fireforming sequence again, which can't be easy on the case. That is why I will consider altering the .45 Colt die if and when the need arises.

In my opinion, the .45/.410 barrel in the Contender is perhaps the most versatile factory weapon ever designed. With shot and solids in your pocket, you are good to go for just about anything in the world short of some really heavy and dangerous animals, and even some of those have been killed with less. I believe it may be the ultimate survival weapon of all times. I know it would be my first choice.
 
Hope that helps!  I'd be very interested in what you learn.  Please keep me posted.

Ron[/quote]

[lostchild]

I had a 45/410 barrel  was a 10" but traded it ( wish I still had it ).  But now I have a nef in 45/410.  In both I've used an offshoot of the 450 Mongo I use 445sm brass to fire form I just shoot a light 445 load (lightest listed in the Lyman pistol & revolver handbook).  Once fireformed I use regular Lee carbide .45dies to reload them I  adjust the belling die to just accept the bullet  then adjust the seating die ( I use washers under the lock ring that way to use the dies for 45 colt loads all I have to do is remove the washers).  For load data I use the 445sm data from the Tomson reloading book using the same powder and bullet weight but with a.452 instead of a .430 bullet.  Hope this helps.......lost

[spinafish]

thanks for the replies: I had read the previous thread also, I guess that is what sparked the flame.  What's weird about the 5744 loads I have shooting is that they impact the target at almost the same place as my heavy loaded 45 LC loads, but the recoil is actually much softer.  Wish I had a chrony!

[Robert]

Nice to see the Mongo pop up again.  I have payed around with it in the past and I still have some loads laying around.  I also used the 444 brass, it works nicely.  I used starting loads for 45-70 trapdoor.  Since the Contender is strong enough for full 45-70 factory loads....I think the trapdoor loads are very safe, and the data is based on a cartridge of identical size.....the 445 supermag is  1.610, the 45-70 is 2.035, and the 444 is 2.225.

[MikeP]

Spinafish, I stopped my Mongo development at this point at 18.5 grains of Lil Gun with a 332-grain Lyman cast bullet, which approaches 1000 fps. The reason I stopped is the recoil was beginning to cause a flinch or two, since I'm not used to shooting heavy bullets in light pistols. I believe the gun and .444 cases can take a lot more pressure. It's just that I can't with my low level of tolerance. Perhaps after shooting it a while I'll build up more.

I think I will add a scope to my 10-inch Contender to add some weight, which should reduce the recoil factor. Someone used to shooting heavy loads would think I'm a whimp, but with my old-style Contender grips the gun whips pretty good in my hands. The last time I shot it, I used a pair of leather gloves, which helped a lot. I think adding the weight of the scope will help more.

My latest acquisition is a batch of Norma 9.3X74R brass from Midway. This is an old European round which is used in doubles, I believe, and the dimensions are very promising for use in the .45/.410 chamber to create, what, a .450 Mongoloid? I've seen RWS brass in this caliber available on the market also. The new, unfired brass fits quite well in my Contender. The potential advantage of this brass is that it is 2.94 inches long compared to the .444's length of 2.23 inches. Theoretically, the longer length will allow the bullet to reach the rifling better, and perhaps eliminate all free-bore which potentially could reduce accuracy in the very long 3-inch .410 shell-sized chamber. I have not tried to fireform this brass yet, but have found my 200-grain .358 caliber bullets fit the unsized case finger tight, which probably would make a good fireforming bullet even though it would obviously not fit the .45 bore. It will be interesting to see if it fireforms very well...I probably will first anneal the neck because it will have to stretch a lot. And, if it does fireform OK, it will be interesting to see how the .45 bullets do in the longer case. One offset to the advantage of the longer case is the fact that it will concurrently have more unused air space in the powder chamber (which I will fill with polyester), because I don't have the ball...er...hands to take the recoil of a full-pressure charge this gun is capable of right now.

The .450 Mongo lives...maybe also as an 'oid. It's a lot of fun experimenting. I'd like to kill a few hogs/deer/bear with it, and then screw on the choke and do some bird/rabbit .410 shotshell hunting.

Such versatility is hard to match with any other firearm in the world, especially when you consider its compact size. I've never heard of a more versatile survival weapon.