No more swabbing 'tween shots.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I took the thunderstick out this Mem. Day and tried a few more shots using a deer-tallow grease cookie.  At 42 yards I put 3 shots into 1 1/2" and at 100 yards I got a 3" 4-shot group.  Over the chronograph the ball whizzed out at over 1800 fps.  

I fired 15 shots and only swabbed once to see what effect it would have.  The effect was detrimental!  The shot fired after swabbing was way low, next shot after that was right back in the ball park.

The deer tallow grease cookie slicks up the bore so good that the subsequent shot is rammed home with ease using the wooden ramrod that comes with the gun.  

Next time out I'll try sorting balls to within 1/2 grain to see if I can knock off another inch on the group size.  And see what 110 grains gives me in terms of group size and velocity.

[sharps4590]

Hey Jaque...

I assume you meant Labor Day......you looked like me, getting your holidays mixed up.....hehehe.

How are ya makin' your grease cookies?  Rollin' up a little ball or do you roll it out on a sheet and cut an actual cookie like we do for BPCR's?  I've got the tool that goes in a press for squeezing out ribbons of lube about 1/8-3/16 thick by about an inch wide.  Doesn't seem to me it would work very good for tallow.  I'm curious....might try a grease cookie in one of my front stuffers.

Vic

[Ramrod]

Way to go Black Jaque, you seem to be very close to the "Holy Grail"!

[lostid]

At 42yrds I put 3 shots into 1 1/2" and at 100 yards I got a 3" 4-shot group.  I fired 15 shots

Well bjj buddy, ya hit the mark with less than half of your 15 round practice group. What happened to the other 8?

I'm a swabber, and I follow the system tight. I'll get 2" groups off hand at 50yrds "all day long". I can hit an 8 1/2x11 sheet at 100 "off hand" using  iron all day long'. now theres gonna be a few "flyers" and a flinch or two,,butt less than 10% of the shot's vary,,,. and the differance tween 20yrds and 100yrds with my .54 and it's "hunting" load is 4"'s.(off hand)
 I sure don't know the "speed" of my ball load,,but it sure does bark!!

[Slamfire]

Way to go Black Jaque, you seem to be very close to the "Holy Grail"!

I suppose its the pace of modern society that makes reloadin' speed in a Muzzy seem important.  

[crow_feather]

lostid,

What I could never figure out is why a person has to swab a bore when there is really no need.  I do not swab and every one I have worked with has learned how to shoot without swabbing.
  That famous black powder shooter, Noswab McClousky, you know, the guy who put 10 balls in one hole offhand at 300 yards, did his shootin without swabbing.
  And that lady shooter, Annie Cleanbore Withoutswab, shot 307 glass balls without a miss, and without swabbing tween shots.

I guess you just gotta like the swabbing more than the shooting.

C F

[Ramrod]

I suppose its the pace of modern society that makes reloadin' speed in a Muzzy seem important.  

A couple hundred years ago, a frontiersman wouldn't keep his scalp for long if he didn't reload quick.
And the drill for both the British, and Washington's Continental Army was a shot every 15 seconds.

[lostid]

why a person has to swab a bore when there is really no need.

feather,,, only cuz the rulz say i cain't blow. an that's it. so i learned another way. i don't mix n match a bunch of differt ways,, ,i shoot best i can. and shooting the best i can is very important to me.
 i mean for goodness sakes we have members here that "wound" squirrel !!  Can you imagine that? wait for a squirrel to bleed-out and fall from a limb??

[lostid]

A couple hundred years ago,

uuhuhh,,like a couple hundered year's ago ,,,,,,,is the same argument you offer today,,,

[Ramrod]

lostid, go check the TC Renegade thread. Graybeard has one to sell at the price you were looking to pay. :-D  :-D  :-D

[lostid]

And the drill for both the British, and Washington's Continental Army was a shot every 15 seconds. /quote]

a shot every 15 seconds??,,,,where did you get that info?? and how does that applie to "hunting" and/ or "marksmenship", the differance between hunting and marksmenship~!??,  and please explain how it applies too this  topic?

[lostid]

lostid, go check the TC Renegade thread. Graybeard has one to sell at the price you were looking to pay. :-D  :-D  :-D

uuhmm. been there done that.  if it's OK' you can check too,,i guess,,,,,ty for checking , thank you Ramrod.
p.s.( i still would change that avitar' if i was you,)(dog's?)(nope. those are puppies an littermates)( course "puppy" games are fun too)(??).

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Lostid,

No that wasn't less than 1/2 of my 15 rounds in a single group.  3 of the 15 rounds were spent going into a 1 1/2-inch group at 50 yards.  The others were spent while checking to see how much filing I needed to do on my front blade.  Since the blade height was changing, I did not consider it relevent to include those shots in the grouping.  But since I was not swabbing all 15 shots were relevent to the fouling buildup.  And the last four were for the 100 yard group.

If you guys enjoy the swabbing part go right ahead and don't bother clicking on my threads regarding such.  I just post it for those interested.

I'm not particularly interested in reloading speed, 'cept for those competitions in which speed matters.  I'm after simplicity.  Powder, ball, prime.  For my tastes simpler is better, fewer steps to remember.  Ditch the short starter, ditch the cleaning patches, ditch the priming powder.  Just use the ramrod that is with the gun, one powder horn, and a ball block.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Sharps4590,

I don't use a grease cookie in the way you BPCR fellas make 'em.

Get a piece of 1" x 4" hardwood board.  Drill a bunch of caliber-sized holes in (assuming your caliber is less than 1").  Now load the block up with patched balls the same way you would if you were cutting patches at the muzzle.  Push the ball & patch in, cut flush with the knife, move on to the next hole.

When the block is all loaded, flip it over.  You will see there is a lot of room on the back side between the patched ball and the opening of the hole.  Just take a spatula and fill the rest of that void with grease.  Fill the grease flush to the block face.

At the range just push the balls out of the block and into the muzzle, grease-side-down.

[Ramrod]

I'm after simplicity.  Powder, ball, prime.  For my tastes simpler is better, fewer steps to remember.  Ditch the short starter, ditch the cleaning patches, ditch the priming powder.  Just use the ramrod that is with the gun, one powder horn, and a ball block.

Sounds kinda "Traditional" to me. :grin:
Thanks for the informative posts.

[Winter Hawk]

I have a question: What happens to the powder if you leave this cookie in for more than a few minutes?  I am thinking of a hunting situation here, where one could be carrying the loaded gun all day.  If things get warm that tallow could start to melt and wet the powder....

-WH-

[1860]

I was wondering the same thing as Winter Hawk.  I've used grease cookies in BP Cartridge and it is a concern on hot/sunny days.  What about just putting that glob of grease down a hot barrel, I would think it would be melted by the time it gets to the powder.?

60

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

In Wisconsin the deer season isn't 'til late November/early December.  "Hot" weather then is in the 60's.  

Deer tallow is reasonably hard and has a high melting point compared to other animal fats.  If I was hunting in hotter weather, I suppose I would mix it with beeswax, or put a card wad to act as a barrier.

Actually I'll give it a check.  I just happened to remember I had a ball block sitting in the truck during this 90-degree heat we've just had.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Sounds kinda "Traditional" to me.  
Thanks for the informative posts.

Well, ya know, some folks just think it's cheatin' usin' that high-tech deer tallow.  Everyone knows deer tallow wasn't invented until sometime after WWII.  I should use something "traditional" like water-soluble-lube, and WD-40, you know, things that are readily available in the woods. :-D

[lostid]

Lostid,

No that wasn't less than 1/2 of my 15 rounds in a single group.  3 of the 15 rounds were spent going into a 1 1/2-inch group at 50 yards.  The others were spent while checking to see how much filing I needed to do on my front blade.  Since the blade height was changing, I did not consider it relevent to include those shots in the grouping.  But since I was not swabbing all 15 shots were relevent to the fouling buildup.  And the last four were for the 100 yard group.

Oh, sight adjustment,, why not just say so,,,,geez I don't care if ya swab or not,,,,,have fun,, obviously Black Jaque Janavaic your a better sportsmen,hunter, and all around shooter than me. I give-up you win. your better than me. you know the best  and only the best way. i am wrong. I weary so much of the argument,,,,you win.

[crow_feather]

I tend to believe that "groups" were not what our ancesters cared about when they were out in the wilds.  Their rifles were heavier and carried a stouter barrel than most of us use. Hawkins were not desirable because of their style.  They were wanted because of the power they could produce.  

Mountain men wanted the stoutest load they could get down the bore without throwing a ball outside a pretty big circle at 50 yards.  I do not believe that elk, deer, or other game was spooked by the human form in the early 1800's in the Rockies.  Also, to a bear, a man was just another edible animal that couldn't run so fast.

It is hard to keep the "modern" out of our primitive reenacting.  I think keeping friend's is more important.

C F

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I tend to believe that "groups" were not what our ancesters cared about when they were out in the wilds.

I respectfully disagree.  Out West the open areas would produce longer shot distances.  Plus the Mountain Men were ever concerned about keeping their scalp.  And the Indians did not present large targets like the Redcoats.  So hitting a small target hiding behind branches was often a life-depending skill.

I think the Mountain Men just learned when accuracy was paramount, when reloading speed was more critical, and when a double ball was necessary.  The ones that got good at making these judgements survived to old age.  The ones that couldn't figure out when to just drop a naked ball down lost their scalps.  

And of course they always carried a 'hawk in their belt.

[crow_feather]

POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY POWER - ACCURACY

I guess we will have to agree on disagreeing.        

C F