Which auto powder measure (RCBS's reply)

[handirifle]

I am thinking of getting an auto powder measure.  What is your favorite and why is it better?

Also, I've noticed all of them (that I've seen anyway) show accurace + or - .1 of a grain.  Sorry but that seems like a lot to me, since one tenth of a grain is small calibers can be a big difference.

My 223 Ultra Varmint like loads of H335 right at 27.0gr.  While 27.1 started the groups opening up to nearly double.

Do they make them more accurate?  The balance beam seems more accurate, albeit slower.

[cwlongshot]

I do not use one of those auto powder measures. But a friend does and he loves it. I'll ask how accurate it is for him.
 I use three different manual measures into a brass tin on a balance beam scale and trickle up to my weight.
 A RCBS is my main unit followed by my dads old grey Lyman and lastly, primairly for pistol and plinkin loads for my 25 & 32-20's the RCBS powder dumper. It uses a cylinder of steel with a hole bored into it. It dispences a fixed amount of powder. Works well enough for plinkin loads..

With my setup, I feel I get plenty of precision. I have been thinking for trying one of those digital scales.......


CW

[Jack Crevalle]

Also, I've noticed all of them (that I've seen anyway) show accurace + or - .1 of a grain.  Sorry but that seems like a lot to me, since one tenth of a grain is small calibers can be a big difference.

My 223 Ultra Varmint like loads of H335 right at 27.0gr.  While 27.1 started the groups opening up to nearly double.

.

I take it your scale reads in less than 1/10 of a grain increments now? If not, then your precision is +/- 1/10 grain.

[handirifle]

Jack
Honestly, I cannot tell you the answer to that.  If a balance beam scale (mine is RCBS) is set with a known weight of say 50gr and it balances dead center, how far off is it?

Maybe I'll pose this question to RCBS and see what they say.

Here is the question I sent to RCBS from their web site.  I'll see what they respond with.

"I am considering getting an auto powder scale but noticed your specs say they are accurate to + or - .10 grain.  In some small capacity charges that can be a lot.  I currently use the 5-0-5 balance beam scale that measures to the .10gr.  What is the plus or minus accuracy of this scale.  No mention of it is made online.

If a load I want for say a 223 is exactly 27.0gr and one charge from the auto scale is 26.9 and the next is 27.1, it is still within your specs but can vary the load performance quite a bit.

Are balance beam scales more accurate than auto scales?"

[cwlongshot]

I would say YES, balance beam scales are more accurate than digitals. BUT to what end, I mean, I think the digital is plenty accurate for what we do with them. AS far as a 10th of a grain, just weigh a charge on your 5-0-5 and then move the littlest increment, it throws everything off as if a hunded pounds was suddenly dropped in the pan. I'd say 1/10th is huge as far as an amount of weight.

 I am not as quick to go with a auto powder measure....maybe its just me. I mean I would be checking it anyway.....I don't know, old habits die hard......for me the jury is still out on auto powder measure's.
 
 CW

[handirifle]

longshot
I was excited about getting one until I saw the variance.  A 27gr load on my balance beam could be a 26.9-27.1 on the auto measure.  Big difference there.  I'll wait to see what RCBS replies to my post.

[cwlongshot]

PLEASE, Let us know what they say!!!

CW

[NE Hunter]

the 5-0-5 has an accuracy of +/-  1/10 grain I think you'll find they all do until you get into the lab type scales they are more accurate ( they have to be)

[handirifle]

NEhunter
Where did you find the accuracy for the 5-0-5?  It's not listed on the web.

[beemanbeme]

I have an Ohaus 10-10 and the stated accuracy is +/- .1  
To answer your question, I have a Lyman DPS 1200 and I think its the greatest thing since bottled beer.  When I first got it, I checked it against my 10-10 often.  And it was right on.  
The thing is, it doesn't meter the powder directly into the case but into a little pan.  As it is metering the charge, the weight is shown on a readout.  If, when it beeps (to show its done), if it isn't right on, you dump that charge back into the hopper and start over.
I would guess that its possible (probable) that the charge of say 27.0 could be 26.09 or 27.01 and register as 27 but I don't think that would make a difference.  I've loaded for a lot of .223's and never had one where .1 gr of powder would have such the dramatic effect you outline.  What does "opening up" mean in actual measurements??

[COYOTEKILLERMILLER]

PM sent.

[handirifle]

beemanbeme
Opening up in my groups meant from 3/8" or less to over 3/4".  Not huge but significant non the less.


Well they emailed me back amd here is a cut and paste of their reply.  Seems a couple of you were right on.  Funny, never saw it like that before.

"Hi Scott - the balance beam and electronic scales have the same variances +/- .10 grain; the scale has the same variance - but there is no display - so you do not actually read the difference, but it is there.  You should have no problems using an electronic system.  Have a great day"

This one is hard for me to mentally visualize but I guess it must be there.

[5Redman8]

Handi,

If .1 gr makes any difference at all in your load, that is the NARROWEST of all vibration nodes I have ever heard of.

Or you are on the ragged edge of safe pressures.

What do your loads do when the temperature goes up 15 degrees???  Temp can have more effect than .5 grains of powder.

Kyle

[handirifle]

Actually the temp has little or no effect, in fact this was produced on 90+ days.

Pressure wise there were no visible signs until about 27.5gr and this load was 27.0.

It was just how picky the Handi was that small amount made a difference.  I don't find that so suprising since I can see similar differences when loading for my 30-06 and it is using nearly twice as much powder.  Of course with the 223 it was 27 gr of H335 and a 40gr bullet, and the '06 is using 56.4 of IMR4350, behind a 165gr bullet.  These were the best loads so far and BOTH were developed in the summer heat (90-100+) so any change in tem would more than likely reduce pressures.  The differences were all noted under nearly identical temp days.  In the SoCal desert it stays just plain hot all summer long.

I find all this worry intersting since the thread was started to discuss opinions of different powder measures, not my loading procedures.  And ,yes, I do like my loads to be precise, at least as much so as my equipment allows.  I will not even allow my powder loads to be off by one graduation mark on my balance beam scale.  Dead center or nothing.

[5Redman8]

Handi,

Not ragging on your loading procedures, just always looking for more understanding on how reloading works out.  The more I learn from you, the less I have to learn through trial and error.

Have you ever heard of a ladder test?  If so, I would be interested in the results you would get from your gun.

If not...here is a brief....VERY brief...explanation:

Loads shells with different powder charges...varying by .3 gr starting 2 grains lower than max and on up to max.  Scoot out to 300yds and shoot at same target numbering the shots 1-???  What you hope to find is that 3 of the different loads group together.  The middle of this group would be the optimal node.  The theory being that if these three different loads shoot to the same POI, then temp and loading .1 gr over or under will not be detrimental to accuracy.

If your loads were worked up in heat, I would expect accuracy to go south in the cold.....EXPECT.....not always the case.

Is H335 one of the EXTREME powders?  If so, it should be less temp sensitive than others.

Kyle

[handirifle]

H335 is supposed to be pretty stable in varying temps.  I always work my loads up in a similar fashion to what you describe, not exactly the same but very close.  I usually work up in .1gr increments, no matter what the caliber.  Slower, in the '06 but tells me a lot.

[brasskeeper]

I switched from a beam scale to a pact digital and I would not go back.