What's up with Li'l Gun pressures?

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I looked into Li'l Gun as I'm considering it for my .357.  WOW!  The velocity is right up there but the pressures were way low.  I forget exactly what Hodgdon listed but I remember other powders producing 3X,000 PSI/CUP and Li'l Gun was only 25,000 PSI/CUP.

(Note: I'm aware that PSI and CUP are not interchangeable, but I forgot which units were listed thus I used both.  I also double check .357 mag data and found that max loads listed either PSI or CUP above the 30K mark.)

So why didn't they go a little further with Li'l Gun to see what it can really do?  Or was that a misprint?

[Paul H]

Some powders show more pressure excursions then others, and I would think this may be the reason the loads were listed the way they were.

Let's say that for a given round, the Saami pressure is 30kpsi, powder A produces an average pressure of 29kpsi +/-1kpsi, so is listed up to 29 kspsi.  Powder B produces an average pressure of 25kpsi, +/-5kpsi, so is listed up to 25 kpsi.

I'm not positive that this is the issue with Lil gun, but I'm sure there is a reason it is listed the way it is.  I've heard pressures rise quite fast when using max loads in Lil gun, so don't just assume you can keep adding powder guessing at what pressures you are reaching.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

No, that wasn't my assumption.  My assumption was WOW velocity like that with low pressure - might make a super load with a nice easy push on a lead bullet.  But +/- 5k would probably make for a lousy load.

However, from some reading some folks really love the Li'l Gun in .357.

Is it possible that this was a compressed load and there just ain't room for more powder?

[PaulS]

Black Jaque,
The powder already fills as much space as the pressure curve / ignition characteristics will allow. LittleGun is like that. That's why it's better in larger cartridges like 44 mag and 357 Maximum.
PaulS

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

PaulS,

By "better" do you mean the powder performs it's best in a larger bore?  

Or is there an implied inadequacy when using it in the .357?  From what I've read, the folks that use Li'l gun really like it in their .357s.

For the .357 with a 158gr XTP Li'l Gun produces the 2nd highest velocity of 7 diff. Hodgdon powders listed.

18 grains of Li'l Gun throws the 158gr bullet at 1577fps, with a pressure of 25800 cup!!!  The only other powder that beat Li'l Gun velocity was H110.  H110 pushed the bullet 1590 fps using 40,700 cup.  All other powders had pressures over 39300 cup.

[securitysix]

There ave been guys who claim to have stuffed 20 some-odd grains of Lil' Gun in a .357 Magnum case by throwing a charge, compressing it with a wooden dowel (or something like that), then throwing another charge.  While I DO NOT recommend this, they lived to tell about it (at least once).  I, personally, wouldn't go over book, but I think that, at least to some extent, the max loads with Lil' Gun have something to do with the fact that the max charge is about all they could get into the case and still be able to seat a bullet.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Hey, I like that.  That's about like loading black powder.  You almost have to try to over charge it.  I don't think you could unwittingly throw a charge, tamp it down, then throw a second charge.

[oldpete]

I have just tested Lil"Gun with 180gr. Cast Performance GC , Loading from 15 to 17 gr. ( MY Max load with this bullet and H-110 has been 16 gr.)
with an average of 2" at 50 yds with williams guide sight and ashley post)

15gr. of Lil"Gun = nice rounded 1" at 50 yds (best ever with this rifle)

16gr. = same as above

17gr = slightly large group and primer shows slight preasure signs.

16 grs. will be my new load for close quarter deer hunting

I will try this powder next in my 44 mag amd 45 long colt rifles.

oldpete