Author Topic: Brenneke's in Ithaca M-37...? (Read 1081 times)

Snowman366 · « **on:** September 29, 2005, 11:52:52 AM »

I've always used Foster-style slugs in my 1980-vintage 12-gauge Ithaca M-37 and had excellent accuracy out of them. The LE agency I work for limits us to Fosters, so I've never used anything but Fosters. I was in the gunshop today and thought I'd pick up a couple boxes of Rottweil-Brenneke "Classic" 1-1/8 ounce slugs to try, just for fun though.

The shop owner suggested that shooting Brenneke's in my M-37 might not be such a good idea since Ithaca's slug-bore (inside diameter) is tighter than the slug-bores on other manufacturers' shotguns. I suppose it could be so, since when I calipered the M-37's bore at the muzzle years ago, it miked .705-inch. I didn't give it another thought, since I figgered that my rifle-sighted "Deerslayer" model would naturally be bored a bit tighter.

Anyway...the gunshop owner said that the antimony-hardened Brenneke slugs wouldn't swage down as they travel through the barrel as easily as the softer lead Foster slugs, and this would accelerate wear on the M-37's bore. Has anyone here ever heard of that being a problem with a M-37 Ithaca slug gun?

Brenneke slugs have been around since what...1895? And the Ithaca M-37 has been here since 1937...right? I'd have thought that if Brenneke slugs weren't compatible with an Ithaca slug gun, that issue would have been dealt with somehow a long time ago, but maybe I'm wrong. Appreciate any advice.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2005, 12:33:45 PM »

Your right, he's wrong, and you say he owns a gunshop? :shock: :roll: :oops:

The Brenneke's are smaller than most foster slugs in diameter and they seal the gasses and power behind them using the felt and or plastic wads attached to the rear of the slugs. Try them you will be amazed at the accuracy and knock down power they produce on game. I now use Brenneke and Brenneke-Rottwiel slugs in all my guns with no problems. Some of the best accuracy I get is in my H&R 24" barrelled 12 gauge smoothbore with a modified choke tube installed using 2 3/4" Brenneke Rottwiel "MP"s and a red dot or scope sight. I have a fine old Ithica M-37 featherweight modified choke in 20 gauge which I would shoot Brenneke's out of without thinking twice about it. They are great slugs, especially for the money. They will definitely not hurt your gun!!!...<><.... :grin:

(and you said a gunshop owner told you this? :eek: :eek: :eek:)

Snowman366 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2005, 02:41:49 PM »

Matter of fact, he is the owner, though he hasn't been in business for all that long. So maybe he's at that stage where he knows just enough to impress the gunshop commandos. Sure made me wonder about him.

I've been poking around hereabouts and apparently all of the Ithaca M-37's have been retired and guys are using Mossbergs, 870's and H&R single-shots, many with rifled barrels nowadays. Can't find anyone still using a 37, but as a kid it seemed that the top-end deerhunters nearly all used smoothbore Ithacas with Brenneke's. I can't recall anyone ever fussing about Brenneke's wearing out anyone's barrel.[/i]

MSP Ret · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2005, 03:26:30 PM »

As you say M-37's may be a status symbol of the past. The one I have used to belong to my best friend. About 1957-62 we would hunt together as lot, he with his WONDERFUL M-37 and me with my second (3rd or 4th?) hand JC Higgens 20 gauge bolt action that I bought and brought home on the bus and a long walk after school, I remember it was wrapped in newspaper and no one gave me a second glance!!! I have ended up with that fine M-37 and always think of him when I think of or use his gun...
Hi Mike, this one's for you!!!!....<><.... :cry: :toast: :grin: :grin:

Critter · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2005, 05:06:18 PM »

My brother shot Brenneke's out of his smoothbore 37 for a long time til I got him a rifled barrel and scope set up for Christmas one year. He still hunts with that 37 (with the new barrel and scope)and swears it's the most accurate slug gun he's ever seen. I think that the Brenneke's will work fine in your gun, I used them for years in a smoothbore 870 and loved em.

BASIC · « **Reply #5 on:** October 01, 2005, 05:08:54 AM »

Do the Brenneke's shoot any better out of the M-37 because of the tighter bore or about the same?How do they compare with sabots for accuracy and stopping power?

Paul Mohr · « **Reply #6 on:** October 01, 2005, 11:28:46 AM »

The brenneke's were the first slugs to be designed to do just that. That is what the fins are for. They actually impart no spin to the slug at all. The fins are there to crush as they go thru a choke. Suposedly you can even shoot them thru a full choke if you want to.

Seems odd that he would tell you not to shoot a slug from a company that specifically designs slugs for that purpuse. If you see any slug with the fins on it it originated from the brenneke slug, it may even be made by them. They make slugs for most of the major ammo makers.

Paul

Snowman366 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 01, 2005, 01:28:05 PM »

Now that you mention that, I recently spoke with a sales rep from Brenneke USA named Charlie Hayes. He told me that Brenneke has stopped selling slugs to Rottweil in Furth, Germany and will be loading them here in this country under the auspices of Brenneke USA. So...no more "Rottweil-Brenneke" slugs anymore. He told me also that they've "improved" the Brenneke line's performance for both smoothbore and rifled slug guns. Wondered if anyone's put that to the test?

Anyway...I hope his words are true. Rottweil sure did a good job for a lot of years with Brenneke slugs. I've read a couple times on various forums that some folks feel the "Brenneke USA" line of slugs aren't as accurate as the Rottweil-loaded version. I'd be curious to know who's loading 'em here in the U.S. for Brenneke USA. I asked, and Mr. Hayes said they had several contractors who could load them. Their Brenneke USA plant in Iowa is supposedly just a distribution warehouse.

I've always really liked Ithaca shotguns. I have an old riot-grade M-37 with a 20-inch, bead-sighted barrel that is stamped as having a cylinder bore that I keep for camping. However, my rifle-sighted Deerslayer M-37 has no stamp anywhere indicating what choke-size its barrel is and, as I mentioned previously, it miked at .705-inch at the muzzle. So Ithaca apparently has (or had) a tighter bore on it's rifle-sighted barrels. That's what set me to wondering about Brenneke's.

Have to laugh at myself since it sorta sounds like most of the really "serious" hunters are using rifled-barrel slug guns...and here I'm fussing about smoothbore slug performance. :-)

Paul Mohr · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2005, 04:50:18 AM »

Don't kid yourself, there are a ton of people still using a smooth bore shotgun with slugs. I bet more so than those that use rifled barrels. Especially in states that have no rifle season like ohio and lower michigan.

Although inline muzzle loaders have become pretty popular because of the accuracy and longer ranges you can get out of them

Paul

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2005, 06:18:57 AM »

Thats a shame about the Brenneke-Rottwiel slugs, Their 2 3/4" "MP" slugs have always been the most accurate for me out of my smoothbore H&R. I will have to load up on what-ever ones I can find....<><.... :grin:

By the way, I also believe there are still probably more smoothbore slug hunters out there than those with rifled barrels shooting sabots. If for only 2 good reasons, they are fine out to 100 yards or so and are MUCH cheaper than saboted slugs, which if you think about it, are way overpriced by the ammo companies....<><.... :roll:

Snowman366 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2005, 09:28:10 AM »

Far and away most of the deer I've shot over the years have been road-injured animals at semi-rural traffic accident scenes. Sometimes the animals would flounder out in the middle of a roadside mud-flat and I'd used my smoothbore Ithaca Deerslayer to euthanize 'em without having to wade through the muck and mire to make a clean kill. I've never had to shoot more than 60 yards or so and the Foster slugs were always amply accurate enough for what I needed. Which is just as well, because Fosters are all that the department allows us to use.

The Brenneke USA rep mentioned that they're marking an "economy" version of their slug under the Brenneke KO name and he said it doesn't give the performance of their "Classic" and "Gold" offerings. He told me that Brenneke USA has "improved" the attached base wad on the Brenneke slugs and told me that their "Classic" slug, shot for shot, is more accurate than Rottweil's "Classic" slug is. I'll believe it when I see it.

MSP Ret...can you PM me? Need a phone number where I can talk to you.

MSP Ret · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2005, 01:58:46 PM »

Snowman366, check your PM's....<><.... :grin:

Snowman366 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2005, 05:10:39 PM »

Quote from: MSP Ret

The Brenneke's are smaller than most foster slugs in diameter and they seal the gasses and power behind them using the felt and or plastic wads attached to the rear of the slugs.

I measured a 12-gauge Brenneke's diameter earlier today and it miked .718-inch. The Winchester and Federal brand Foster slugs I've miked ran .735 to .740-inch in diameter. Interesting.

Got your PM, Andy. I'll give you a call.