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Author Topic: Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century  (Read 2727 times)

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Offline toycannons

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« on: September 30, 2005, 08:52:29 AM »
Hello gentleman,
This is my first post here. I am seeking information about 19th Century toy cannons. I have aquired about a dozen of these in both blackpowder and firecracker types over the years. I would like to compare details and knowledge with other collectors of these miniature artillery pieces. I have cannons made by Ives, Stevens, Safety Cannon Co., Kenton, Peter G. Thomson, Shimer and some un-identified as of yet. Here is my cannon web site:   http://toycannons.home.comcast.net
I am also interested in any refererence material, antique catalogs or internet sites that could provide additional information on them.
If there are any of you out there that can help me please contact me at toycannons@comcast.net
Thanks,
JT
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Offline Double D

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2005, 11:48:47 AM »
Welcome JT, it's nice to have a Toy Cannon Collecter join our little group.

I have a question about you website.  You have a catalog listed.  Is this a catolog of values or an offering to sell? If it is a an offering to sell you need to become a board sponsor to continue posting the link.  If it is a catalog of values, I will add it to the Resource list as it is a handy reference.

Please post up some pictures of your cannons and educate us.
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2005, 12:26:05 PM »
JT -

Let me echo DD's welcome.  We like cannons (and mortars) of all flavors.

Cool website.  

So, do you fire these little guys?  How about some action pix?
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Offline Cpt Ed

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2005, 01:03:46 PM »
JT,  welcome to the board. You have a nice collection of toy cannons.   :D

Perhaps you can help me as to the age and maker of my toy cannon?

Here are the statistics on it:

BARREL LENGTH:   10 ½ inches.
BORE SIZE:   .75
WHEEL DIAMETER:     5 ½ inches.
OA LENGTH:   15 inches.
OA WIDTH:  7 ½ inches. (axle end to axle end). Tire width: 5/8”
WEIGHT:  19 lbs.


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Always think safety...be a More Complete Cannoneer.

"I HATE SMALL TOWNS BECAUSE ONCE YOU'VE SEEN THE CANNON IN THE PARK, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO."

Offline toycannons

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2005, 01:28:22 PM »
Cat Whisperer and Double D,
Thanks for the warm welcome. This is a really cool forum, I found it by searching Google on blackpowder. I really like some of the other forums here at Graybeard!!!
Well, I have lots of pictures but I need to figure out how to post them here. Do I need to host them on my webserevr or can they be uploaded here? I can post some details of the various makers etc.
I became interested in toy cannons  as an offshoot from my interest in CW history and I dabble in the occasional CW relics. I am not a reenactor but I attend them as much as I can to see those ordinance rifles, napoleons and parrot rifles being fired!
Yes, these are all firable cannons, and I have fired some of them. I will be firing some others and will post some pics in the near future. There are a couple I will not fire because they are too rare.
The prices I have on my site was just my guess at values. I am not selling them, sorry I should make that clear on that page. I need to update my web site, and will do it soon.  Techically challenged IT professional that I am.

Cpt ed.
Are there any markings on the cannon? What kind of fasteners are used to hold the trunion to the carriage? The brass wheels and design of the trails would make me think this is European, most probably Spanish.
Post some close uip shots of the trunnion and the axles might be helpful in determining the age.
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Offline Powder keg

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2005, 02:09:17 PM »
JT, Welcome to the board. That's a great website you have. Lots of interesting stuff. Thanks,
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Wesley P.
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Offline Cpt Ed

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2005, 02:34:55 PM »
JT asked: "What kind of fasteners are used to hold the trunion to the carriage? "



Will post images of the axle later.
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Always think safety...be a More Complete Cannoneer.

"I HATE SMALL TOWNS BECAUSE ONCE YOU'VE SEEN THE CANNON IN THE PARK, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO."

Offline Cpt Ed

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2005, 10:40:40 AM »
JT,

Here are the links to view the additional images you have requested. I did not want to post the pictures and use up valuable GB server space.

Many thanks GB for your kind reply. Here are the images.



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Always think safety...be a More Complete Cannoneer.

"I HATE SMALL TOWNS BECAUSE ONCE YOU'VE SEEN THE CANNON IN THE PARK, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO."

Offline Graybeard

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2005, 11:46:58 AM »
I'm allocated 1000 gigs of data transfer per month. Don't think that's gonna get used up any time in my life time. Post all the images you wish.
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Offline Powder keg

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« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2005, 11:53:27 AM »
Will do :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :grin:
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Wesley P.
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Custom Machine work done reasonable. I have a small machine shop and foundry. Please let me build your stuff. I just added Metal etching to my capabilities. I specialize in custom jobs.
"When the gun is lost, All is lost"

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2005, 04:34:19 PM »
Quote from: Graybeard
I'm allocated 1000 gigs of data transfer per month. Don't think that's gonna get used up any time in my life time. Post all the images you wish.


Bill - THANKS for your support!

We'll do our best to have THE most popular forum!
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Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline toycannons

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2005, 09:32:23 AM »
Cpt Ed,
Well that is a mighty fancy cannon! I have seen this same type cannon twice before, with the eagle or hawk trails on them. The wheels appear to be cast iron with  brass banded around them. The slotted machine screws holding the trunnion down make me think this is a 20th century piece, maybe 1910-1940 period.
It is my belief that this may be a European cannon, as it has a much higher level of quality than most of the American 19th Centruy toy cannons. The brass rings pressed on to secure the wheels on to the axles is also something I have not seen on American toy cannons.
Is that a "v" marked on the end of the trunnion?
I know cannons were given as gifts in Europe to the wealthy and to nobility and this one may be one that has such a past. This is just my guess as I cannot say for sure at this time.
JT
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Offline Cpt Ed

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2005, 01:25:40 PM »
Hello JT,

Quote
Is that a "v" marked on the end of the trunnion?


On mine there isn’t any “V” on the trunnion or any other markings, to be found. On running a magnet test, the carriage, barrel and wheels are all brass. The axle is steel.

You might find this of interest. Today I received in the mail an old 1961 Robert Abels Catalogue of the Howard K. Brown CANNON COLLECTION. There is 56 pages of all types of cannons including Decorative, Models and toys. On page 50 as item #157-163, illustrated below is this identical cannon.

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Always think safety...be a More Complete Cannoneer.

"I HATE SMALL TOWNS BECAUSE ONCE YOU'VE SEEN THE CANNON IN THE PARK, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO."

Offline toycannons

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2005, 10:41:11 AM »
That is the kind of information that is helpful. I saw that Brown catalog on ebay once but it sold before I bid on it. I will let you know if I find anything more, since we can now assume it is American made 19th century cannon. My guess would be J & E Stevens made it possibly, they started in 1848 I think. Ives started around 1868 so could be an ives possible. There are reprints of their catalogs available I believe too.
I have seen the same cannon on Ebay earlier this year, was that the one you purchased?
JT
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Offline Cpt Ed

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Blackpowder Toy Cannons of 19th Century
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2005, 10:43:30 AM »
JT,
It was on eBay for a couple of days until the eBay Liberal Police Force cancelled the seller’s auction. I purchased it from an Antique’s dealer in Ohio last year or was it the beginning of this year. To old I can’t remember things like that anymore.

The Robert Abels catalogue I just purchased is an original and was on eBay. There is a seller in California that lists a reprint of the catalogue from time to time.

The catalogue price of the illustrated toy cannon #157-163 like mine in 1961 was $60.00

They also list original Civil War 12 pdr Bronze Napoleon’s for a price of $3250.00 and original mounted Bronze 6 pdr’s  for $2500.  

My how prices have changed.
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Always think safety...be a More Complete Cannoneer.

"I HATE SMALL TOWNS BECAUSE ONCE YOU'VE SEEN THE CANNON IN THE PARK, THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO."
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