Author Topic: Frame pressure for different cartridges  (Read 1206 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ScatterGunner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 490
Frame pressure for different cartridges
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2005, 10:46:15 AM »
this looks like a bad load to begin with.

there are two pressure fronts, both with significantly different burn rates.

the first casual comment would be this is is a really bad duplex load but no, i'll bet we are seeing the bullet being moved by the first pressure front, then the pressure drops but the remaining powder, slow burning indeed, burns at a much slower rate at the lower pressure until the surface retardants are consumed then you end up with large geometry grains burning rapidly giving you the second pressure front

the second pressure front is steeper, faster, taken to the extreme, this load will have a detonation at the second pressure front instead of a regular burn. this is a bad condition where the powder evolves from solid to gas with a flame front of greater 5-10kF/S. pressure skyrockets, metal yields to the energy and your gun grenades.

this i have seen before, when you use powder that is too slow for the case volume and bullet weight, or when you use small amounts of slow powder, or, greatly reduced charges of fast ball powders.

but, this is all a bad and potentially dangerous condition, not one you want to load for regularly.

properly chosen powders, case volumes, and bullet weights will not cause this anomoly.

although, this could also be a barrel obstruction !!!!! so much for being analytical !!!

and yes fred, i do go after grouse with nothing but 1/2 ounce in my 410 !

sg
there''s room for all of God''s fauna and flora, right on my dinner plate!

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
Frame pressure for different cartridges
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2005, 03:29:48 PM »
Scattergunner.

Great final reflection. This been a great thread and most informative.

P.S.
Five fat grouse + wife + birdfood = no grouse dinner.

I was hoping to have at least one for a snack, no dice. Outvoted by the war department.

But while scouting for geese this week, a nice hen pheasant flew into a pickup ahead of me and broke its neck. That made a nice meal of road kill.
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline bajabill

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
Frame pressure for different cartridges
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2005, 04:21:43 AM »
for bolt/action thrust, I would use the largest inside diameter of the case.  All of the tapering sections will contribute to the aftward load (vectorally) so using only the ID at the base would ignore some aft thrust.

Come on guys, I posted this link before, have we all forgotten what we learned the first week of class.  Better brush up, finals are just around the corner   :eek:

http://www.varmintal.com/a243z.htm

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Frame pressure for different cartridges
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2005, 07:45:10 AM »
Quote
Come on guys, I posted this link before, have we all forgotten what we learned the first week of class. Better brush up, finals are just around the corner



That's good... :)

Quote
"Trying to use the weaker brass to lighten the load on the action and bolt face of a rifle by having the brass grip the chamber is analogous to using a car's radiator to protect the bumper in a front-end collision. A polished chamber minimizes case stretching, reduces case head separation, and increases case life."


It what a few of us have been saying all along...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline bajabill

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
Frame pressure for different cartridges
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2005, 08:00:39 AM »
Chamber polishing ....

I think that was one of the parameters Varmint Al was evaluating.  In his models it did help with the effects from case stretching (you cant stop the stretch, its how the case stretches that matters) but it also increased bolt thrust.

Look at the bottom of the page I linked, It has a frame by frame deformation of a case undergoing preasurization.  Also, the undesirable effects from anealing the case head, a no-no.

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Frame pressure for different cartridges
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2005, 08:05:04 AM »
Yep...saw it...Thanks for re-posting the link :D

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...