Author Topic: ackley improved? (Read 600 times)

fortress49 · « **on:** October 14, 2005, 07:34:04 AM »

Hello,

I am not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but here goes anyway....

What exactly is Ackley Improvement? I think I know some of what it is and what it does, but I want to make sure.

As I understand it, if you "Ackley Improve" something, you can also shoot the original cartridge in the rifle as well. Is this the case? For instance, if you Ackley Improve a 30-30, can you shoot both the 30-30 and the 30-30 AI cartridges?

What kinds of advantages could you get in an AI 30-30 over a normal 30-30 in the Handi rifle?

If AI is so great, why do not more people do the conversion? Is it the expense since you have to buy special reloading dies?

I have heard that a 30-30 AI using spire point bullets will come close to .308 performance. Is this true? If so, it seems to me a 30-30 barrel in a handi would be very handi! Able to use normal 30-30 cartridges and get the greater performance of handloaded AI cartridges and use spire point bullets. Plus, less recoil!

What are your thoughts and opionions on these many and assorted questions.

Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** October 14, 2005, 10:13:25 AM »

If you use the search feature for 30-30 AI, you'll get several previous threads on the subject that will probably answer all your questions.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=69551

tom barthel · « **Reply #2 on:** October 14, 2005, 10:25:19 AM »

Hi

I think one of the reasons the ackley isn't standard is there are a lot of older rifles that may not be suited for this conversion. I just sent my check to 4D products for a reamer rental. The charge to me is $25.00 + $85.00 deposit. I'm very happy with my handi-rifle in .30-30. I just wanted something different. I think you get longer case life. More reloads per case. If this works for me, I may consider a 7.62x39 barrel for rechambering to .303 British.

Take care and God bless.

Tom

.308 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2005, 03:31:20 PM »

fortress49, I plan to do the same as tom just as soon as my barrel gets here. Claims of 200-300 fps gains in velocity, the probability that there would be less bolt thrust, and having something a little different make the rechamber appealing to me. Plus like you said the ability to be able to use factory ammo in the rechambered gun, and being able to handload spire point bullet in it like you can the handi 30-30 win.

I've never shot one, for that matter I've never seen one, but soon I will.

For 25 bucks and a little postage, hard to beat that.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2005, 04:29:57 PM »

It's been said before...so...why not again...in a lever gun..or bolt action..the barrel can be set back to accomodate the extra.004"- "crush fit" the true Ackley cartridge will be if chambered correctly...if your planning on doing this to a Handi.....visualize putting a .004" feeler gauge between the barrel and the reciever..and closing it and having it stay closed on firing..this is what you will have to be able to do to shoot factory ammo...or your barrel gap is already to large if you can do it now....if you can't visualize this.. better yet..try it..and see if it will close and lock up completely...the best accuracy comes from rifles having .002" or less...having .004" of headspace isn't conducive for good accuracy...I'm not saying it won't work namely because of the variances of the chamber dieminsions each rifle has..so a good chamber cast is what I would do before I started any rechambering job....that is if your planning on shooting factory ammo in it..you need to realize this.You will be able to adjust your dies to reload for it....just firing factory ammo might be a chore...and having to fireform your brass is an extra step you might not have planned on...this is..if it will close on the .004" feeler gauge..if it won't..you best cut your chamber so it will fit completely...and forget about firing factory ammo..FWIW...I would at least take your rifle to a compentent gunsmith that has done this conversion to a Handi and have it checked out...you can have a good gunsmith set it up properly or cut the chamber to any dimensions you want...and while he's cutting the chamber...look at a blank set of dies from C&H to have these cut at the same time and with the same reamer..so your dies will be perfectly matched...... it is certainly worth checking out before messing something up..

Mac

.308 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 15, 2005, 02:48:45 AM »

I'm not an expert or smith, but does all that apply to cartridges with rimmed cases where they headspace on the rim rather than the shoulder?

Mitch in MI · « **Reply #6 on:** October 15, 2005, 05:50:52 AM »

Quote from: .308

I'm not an expert or smith, but does all that apply to cartridges with rimmed cases where they headspace on the rim rather than the shoulder?

No, and that's why you get a much larger increase in case capacity from the AI conversion in a rimmed cartridge. The only place a 30-30 touches an AI chamber is at the base and the neck, the shoulder is in wide open space. Can't do that with a 30-06, changing the shoulder angle means you are depending on the shoulder/neck junction for headspacing with a rimless cartridge.

dodd3 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 15, 2005, 06:29:20 AM »

fortress49 i use to have a30/30 ai on a tikka bolt action, it is a very good conversion in the tikka bolt action i was just shy of the 308 with less powder it is a very efficient improved case. you wont regret getting it done
bernie

Fred M · « **Reply #8 on:** October 15, 2005, 12:06:37 PM »

One thing about the 30-30 AI is that the AI case dim. is 0.039 shorter than the parent case. That should not be so and I don't know why that is

Clymer draw. show it min 1.990 wich is almost 50 thou shorter.
The chamber in a single shot should be the same as the parent 2.039.
When fire formed to AI the case will shorten 12 to 14 thou which is just about right for trim length

The neck on the AI is also longer than it needs to be .310 would be more than enough rather than .350".

Somebody must have had some trouble with working these case through leaver action.

Clymer increases the shoulder diameter by 10 thou which is better.

But I know there are all sorts of reamers out there with different dimensions. I would design my own reamer and get Dave Kiff to grind it. Specially in a Handi which are known for liberal chambers since the end of the barrel can't be cut off .050"

Check the reamer dimensions for best fit and make a chamber cast. Lest you end up with a crummy job.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 15, 2005, 04:21:42 PM »

This ones been beat to death......and it just isn't worth the effort......

Good Luck

Mac

.308 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 16, 2005, 03:54:15 AM »

Thank you, sir.