Author Topic: Teaching Pigs To Break Dance and some Good Tech Notes 45-70  (Read 837 times)

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Offline Cottonwood

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Teaching Pigs To Break Dance and some Good Tech Notes 45-70
« on: October 14, 2005, 05:24:32 AM »
I thought I would pass this your way.  I found this tonight while I couldn't sleep over at HuntAmerica in the hog forum.

Teaching pigs the Texas break dance with a 45-70

The bullet used in the Quigley Model 45-70 Sharps was a factory Remington 405-gr JSP Core Lock bullet.

I sure wish we had BIG PORKERS here in Montana

Beginners .45-70 Start To Finish

If your a biginner reloader for the 45-70 cartridge or not, this is good stuff complete with pictures that you can print off and keep.

Offline SSS

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Teaching Pigs To Break Dance and some Good
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2005, 07:26:57 AM »
Good vid.  I liked it. :agree:

Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2005, 07:53:00 AM »
Not a good example of shot placement.  The middle pig was a clean kill, the other two are embarrassments.  Don't think I would advertise that if I were behind the trigger on that trip.

Ian
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 08:22:16 AM »
It was interesting, but it would have been a better tutorial on where not to place shots. :oops:
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline Cottonwood

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Teaching Pigs To Break Dance and some Good
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 11:24:47 AM »
In the Hog Forum you will notice that MANY are using under calibers for taking hogs, ie .243 Win, 6.5x55, 270, 7mm and the like, and have to shoot their hogs several times to get them down.  Very tough critters even stated by experienced hog hunters.

Hell come to think of it, how many have shot bears that have just piled up right on the spot.... dang if they don't run the distance till they stumble dead.  How many have had deer, even with good shot placement hit it on a run and not just drop on the spot... I've only had two deer drop out of all the deer I've ever killed.  Same thing with elk... dang things just don't co-operate and drop when hit.

The first hog on the video there was nothing wrong with shot placement as it was a good right thru the shoulder shot.  The hog dropped like a sack of rocks and yes it kicked and raised the dust until it expired.  How many have shot deer and watched them do the very same thing.

Yes the second one was shot pretty much like the first... you can hear it squeel and see the dust kicking up etc....

And the third probably could have been better, but did die and was recovered approx 60 yards away.

Now, how many of you could have shot these better with open sights, I personally don't think any of you could have.  The Quigley Sharps does not have a scope on it.

Not to add insult, but come on guys... none of you have passed walking on water 101, now have you.

Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2005, 11:50:28 AM »
Nope, haven't done any water walking, and neither have I done any hog hunting.  I thought I was going hog hunting this past spring and so did some research on hog anatomy in prep.

Hog vitals are down low as compared to a deer.. that first shot was way high.. not as bad as shooting one in the butt like the last one, but that bullet missed the vitals by nearly a foot.  It immobilzed the animal but it wasn't a good clean kill.

Just not filmworthy footage IMO,
Ian
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Offline .308

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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2005, 11:54:23 AM »
Quote
Not to add insult, but come on guys... none of you have passed walking on water 101, now have you.
:-D  :-D  :-D  8)

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2005, 12:10:11 PM »
I've seen a lot of professional hunting videos of poor hits called good shots, so this isn't anything out of the ordinary for home video....But, maybe a hog anatomy lesson is in order for the shooters....

http://www.texasboars.com/anatomy.html
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline .308

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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2005, 12:34:19 PM »
I reckin' you can find anything on the web.  :-D

Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2005, 01:43:14 PM »
I'm so glad we can all agree to dis-agree here  :-D

But I would strongly sugest for those that would like to bitch about the video, contact the guy who shot the footage at Venado

He offers, great Texas and Mexican Deer hunting.  If you would like to tell him what poor videography that he did... tell him yourself on www.huntamerica.com at the Hog Forum.  I don't claim to be as professional as he is, after all, I have not walked a mile in his shoes.  :roll:

Some guys have played here, not having one once of experience, other than behind the keyboard.  

Dang, I wish I was that good.

Offline Ditchdigger

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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2005, 02:50:20 PM »
I've noticed that when I shoot a hog in the lower 1/3 of his body for a heart lung shot,they always run off like nothing happened,but shoot the upper half and they go down, .................. sometimes.  I've seen them do the breakdancing that he talks about,but it's not unusual for them to do this.     Digger
Rest in Peace Old Friend July 2017

Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2005, 03:35:26 PM »
Quote from: Ditchdigger
I've noticed that when I shoot a hog in the lower 1/3 of his body for a heart lung shot,they always run off like nothing happened,but shoot the upper half and they go down, .................. sometimes.  I've seen them do the breakdancing that he talks about,but it's not unusual for them to do this.     Digger


Digger

I think that this Vitals will explain why.


Offline NONYA

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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2005, 05:37:29 PM »
Montanan they have some BIG pigs out at the Milford colony near our Augusta place,we could buy a couple and turn em loose in our stuble field,maybe limit ourselves to shots 500+ yards to make it somewhat of a challenge.
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2005, 06:20:46 PM »
Quote from: NONYA
Montanan they have some BIG pigs out at the Milford colony near our Augusta place,we could buy a couple and turn em loose in our stuble field,maybe limit ourselves to shots 500+ yards to make it somewhat of a challenge.


How big is big... I knew a guy over in Winnett area that had a very large 475 lb pig that they tried to put into a trailer.... one of the guys found that his feet could be thrown higher than his head up in the air, and Snookums, never did get loaded to get butchered.

I would love to do a Hog hunt, where the sow or boar could be turned loose for a fair chase hunt.  Heck we might even get MtJerry involved since he lives in Great Falls.

The thing we gotta check on for sure, is if this is okay with FWP.... I mean if a big ol porker escaped....  :shock:  

Looking at the prices for out of state hunts... its cheaper to book a bison hunt here in Montana, than it is to take a 300 to 500 pound hog on a bow or rifle hunt.

Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2005, 02:12:21 AM »
I retract my previous statement concerning the first shot.  Looks like it would have gone in the main artery/spine area.

Montanan, I don't want you to think that I was flaming you or anyone else.  If I came across like that I apologize.  I was just commenting on shot placement as I saw it, and the first one wasn't as bad as I thought.

I think I should take a lesson from ol Powderman and put more smileys in my posts to lighten them up a tad...  :-D

Ian
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Offline Cottonwood

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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2005, 03:07:25 AM »
Quote from: Haywire Haywood
I retract my previous statement concerning the first shot.  Looks like it would have gone in the main artery/spine area.

Montanan, I don't want you to think that I was flaming you or anyone else.  If I came across like that I apologize.  I was just commenting on shot placement as I saw it, and the first one wasn't as bad as I thought.

I think I should take a lesson from ol Powderman and put more smileys in my posts to lighten them up a tad...  :-D

Ian


Ian no problem I accept and propose more harmony than discord here.  I think what we need to understand with this hunting situation is that shot placed with an iron sighted rifle are going to be differant than those taken with a scope... this is a no brainer.  What we saw through the camera lense was a close up, that obviously was closer than the human eye was seeing by the shooter.

This of course is a problem with any open sighted shooting, and because of this I limit my range on purpose.

This is also why I practice with "Life Size Animal Targets" like I have been with my Rolling Block Rifle 45-90 and my Marlin .35 Remington.  My bison targets are about 1/2 the size with 40" at the hump.  I haven't made one yet that is 6' at the hump  :-D  But these are large enough to work with out to what a bison hunt would be at 75 to 200 yards.



If I was going on a hog hunt, I would have life size hog targets, and practice well at differant distances for shot placements.  Of course the farther out they get, the more difficult it becomes to be precise.  I also have a vital diagram of a bison like the hog diagram that I posted.  I study my game well before I hunt them.

We've heard from one "Hog Hunter" here, who has seen what was displayed on the film as probably being the norm with hog shots where the hog goes down, kicking after a vertebrae or spinal shot that dropped them like a sack of rocks.  As a hunter, I would rather see this, than having one lost in the brush with a shot thru the lungs.  Hogs are tough and seldom if any blood trail is left because of body fat that seals the bullet holes.  I do know that the bullet used for the hog was a factory Remington 405-gr JSP core lock.  I wouldn't use a 300-gr or 350-gr simply because they are moving to fast to soot me, there by causing massive blood shot damage like you saw in the web site that Tim posted Texas Boars Anatomy

The film was not like what we would see on "The Outdoor Channel" or "The Sportsman's Channel" they are not going to let us see those shots where they were less than perfect in most case.... sometimes the show does permit them to slip by.  But it has been my experience that only 10% and I think that figure is even high, for the game harvested was a perfect die right now shot.

You all have a good one  :D