Author Topic: compasses what's good what's bad?  (Read 3124 times)

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Offline rvtrav

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« on: April 30, 2006, 06:39:25 PM »
Hello to everyone,

    Besides a lot of new fangled gear like the GPS, I am interested in a simple pocket carry compass, one that I can just leave in my hunting coat or pack.
  In doing some research on the subject, many places state that 'cheap' compasses don't work, or aren't reliable. I'm curious, aren't all compasses dependent on the same laws of nature? doesn't anything like even the old survival manual diagram of a needle floated on a water base work?

  Why do some work and others not?

  does anyone have any preferences for types and brands of simple compasses, or past experience with some to steer clear of?

   Thanks for any info or opinions in advance, Rvtrav

Offline SAWgunner

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2006, 03:49:53 PM »
I personally carry what the Army issued me...one of the tritium military compasses.  I personally tust these, and nothing else.
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Offline Bushwalker

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2006, 05:32:47 PM »
The Ministry of Natural Resources in Ontario use the Sylva or Sunto compasses. I personally have used both for 50 years. Both of these compasses has the needle in a liquid filled section which allows the needle to settle down very quickly while others that are not liquid filled bounce back and forth for some time. The cover is made from metal or plastic with a gun sight on the lid to sight on objects when taking a bearing. The azmuth ring is adjustable to turn  to the bearing you wish to travel. Inside the lid is a mirror which can be used for signaling. You can also preset your magnetic declination by turning a small screw located in the azmuth ring. In the past and still after being retired, I would stake my life on either compasses. There are many good compasses out there, and you should be able to get what you want. Don't get a cheapie, which can be defective . GPS is the modern way to travel, but you need a carton of batteries, and your compass for a backup. I hope this helps you out. Talk to you later.

Offline rvtrav

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2006, 07:01:48 PM »
thanks to bushwalker and sawgunner for the tips.

  I purchased a sylva pin on for the field and a flat plastic see through one for use with maps.

  The GPS is the way to go, but not always the most convienient, and not 100% depending on satillite reception, batteries, and foilage cover etc.

  One thing that I have found is that all compasses do not point north! quality is important!

  Sawgunner, what type was/is G.I issue? I wouldn't mind getting one with a luminous dail as well.

Offline corbanzo

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2006, 10:52:51 PM »
Here's my rule: the more complicated, the less likely I am to pick it up.  A compass is made for pointing, and bells and whistles just get in the way.  A good old flat clear piece of plastic with a needle, water, and no bubbles inside has always gotten me where I'm going.  I always liked to etch the declination in the compass, just to remind myself.
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline myronman3

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2006, 03:00:19 PM »
like sawgunner,  i made off with my military tritium compass.    a very fine compass.

Offline wijim

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2006, 03:08:24 AM »
i carry 3 compasses.  i use the flat clear liquid filled ones and keep them in seperate pockets of my pack or pockets.

why i carry three.  it sounds weird or stupid maybe....but if at least two are pointing the same...i know im going the right direction.  i have had a single compass not function properly.  fortunately i wasn't in a situation where it mattered, but i wouldnt be without when im in dense forest or even more wicked terrain such as thick sumac swamps.  

if i were to have all three compasses pointing different directions.....well, guess id have to figure that someone was trying to tell me something...lol

Offline ButlerFord45

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compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2006, 10:05:52 AM »
Map reading is one of my few skills,  I've used a 1:50,000 and a compass in 22 countrys and 38 states and have always made it to where I was going.  The U.S. military compass is an excellent piece of equipment but unnecessary.  Silva's cheapest liquid filled, I believe it's a Ranger, would be the minimum quality I'd use.  I think they can be had in the $ 15 range.
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Offline Siskiyou

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2006, 05:36:29 PM »
I was introduced to the wonders of the compass as an eleven-year-old Boy Scout.  As soon as I could I bought a compass.  It was small silver dollar sized compass in a brass container.  When we went into the wilderness it went with me.  A bear scared the pack animals and our leader/ packer had my friends and I pick up scattered gear and proceeded up to the lake, while he took care of other chores.  The Forest Service trail was defined by years of use, but we consulted the compass numerous times on that night time hike.

My friend bought the Scouts plastic base plate compass.  It is the lowest price compass made by Silva and was sold with the B.S.A. marking.  Who knows that compass with the B.S.A. marking maybe a collectors item now days.  Of course my buddy and I spent a lot of times learning to use our compasses out on the local ranches.

I believe the Silva base plate compass is their lowest price compass. http://www.silvausa.com/baseplate.html   I have a couple of the base plate compasses around and given others to kids.  My favorite compass is my Silva Ranger compass.  http://www.silvausa.com/ranger.html  It has been my compass of choice for many years.  It has banged around in my pack and hunting vest for a least 35 years. 

About 15 years ago I was planning a trip down Baja and one of the items I wanted in my gear was a compass.  I brought a Brunton mirrored compass.  I selected it because it is very similar to my Silva Ranger compass.  In the Sea of Cortez I would shoot bearings on peaks to get fixes on locations we were catching fish.  I recall that one was 245 degrees to the highest peak and the bearing to another peak crossed a little more then a mile off shore.  An underwater ridge produced excellent fishing.  My father-in-law and I return to that location a number of times.  The compass bearing always put us on top of fish.  Miss the mark and there was no fish.  My father-in-law proved this when he tried to find the location on his own using the compass on his boat.  A sighting compass was better for this chore plus an understand on how the process works.

One of my habits in the West is to sho0t bearings to distant fire lookouts.  Using the back reading I can tie down by location.  If I have more then one landmark to get a back reading of off my location is better defined.

While I am an advocate of a GPS, I still carry a compass.


There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline S.B.

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2006, 07:05:41 PM »
I personally carry what the Army issued me...one of the tritium military compasses.  I personally tust these, and nothing else.

I agree, 100%. Compasses work on a very basic principal. Even a needle stuck in a cork, floating in water will work, in most cases?
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Offline Plainsman

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2006, 03:16:33 PM »
Compasses are only as good as the user!!  Please be sure to LEARN HOW to use a comass CORRECTLY!  Magnetic declination causes your compass to point to the MAGNETIC NORTH POLE and not the 'true' North Pole.  Do you know your declination for where you live???  This is the number of degrees and direction to the East or West of true north your compass will point.  This is a very important skill used jointly with map reading.

If you stick with "Brand" names, you'll usually get good compasses, Silva, Brunton, Suunto are a few.
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Offline WaitsLong

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2006, 10:58:26 AM »
I split them up in three groups;
each has its place. A 4th feature,
is auto declination adjustment.

1)Those that point north an do little else.
Useful in dark,fog or white-out.
Some are small. $4 to $20.

2)Those that can be used for sighting.
With sights, you can find your position.
The best of this kind was used by mariners,
surveyors, and map-makers, who all liked to
record numbers, for later analysis. By our
standards, they take "recording" as a fetish.
$10-$400

3)Those that use a baseplate.
They allow one to sight and immediately
lay it on a map and draw a lin-of-position.
Scandinavians pioneered this feature for
Orienteering competitions; it is quick
and minimizes human errors.
No recording is necessary, but of course
some recording might be useful.
$10-400

Automatic Declination Adjustment is great.
A Silva Ranger has ADA and 1,2, and 3; it is
(or was) top of the line. Learn how to use
a Ranger or similar compass, with a map, and
you will be in a much different world than
guys with a type 1 or type 2 compass.

If you are going into extreme cold,
( -40 F, I am guessing)
you might consider NON-liquid filled compass.

I use all kinds (1,2,3) of compasses, to good effect.

The most common misconception about compasses
is that they can tell you where you are; they can
only do this if you have other information and thus
can establish lines-of-position.

In general, it is very difficult to get a line-of-position
(LOP) using a type 1 compass; while it is routine with
a type 2, and it is a breeze with a type 3 (baseplate).

Search the net or get a library book on LAND navigation.
(Celestial or Coastal navigation books are geneally far too
complex for the beginner.) 



Offline .45 COLT

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2006, 01:45:20 AM »
Just a note on the Silva Ranger - They come in two different models. One reads in Azimuth, the most common type, the other is scaled to read Bearings. The one for Bearings is used for surveying work or to use with a survey drawing. It can get real confusing if you have to keep converting Azimuth to Bearing. They are good compasses, the adjustable declination feature is great as long as you know what the declination angle is for the area you are in. I have two of them, one with each scale.

DC
On the 19th of April, 1775, a tyrannical government sent an army to disarm its citizens. They ran into a touch of trouble.

Offline WaitsLong

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2006, 09:14:55 AM »
DC,

You make a good point on dial scale preference.

I did not even know, they made it two ways; mine
were Azimuth i.e. 0 to 360 scale which is handy.
I would not want any other scale.

B, B, BUT....everybody please listen.

I think, using the quick method, either scale would
work easily. Why, you ask?

When I used my Ranger to get a line-of-position,
I did not even have to read or to record the actual
angle.
Also, I  have a non-mathematical friend with a Ranger, and
with no more than the instructions, he used the quick, no-numbers,
no-recording method perfectly.

In its simple form, it is a 2 step process:
1)take a sight
2)lay the compass on the map and draw a line.

Yes, you can read the angle, record it in a book, along
with other info. But you do not need to read or record.

Alternatively, you could also label the pencil line on the map,
for example with Date and Time. This is also optional.

I am not discouraging your keeping records, just saying you do
not have to. Also, if you do not have a map or chart, you can
record the numbers and actually make your own map or fill in
blank areas on an exiting map. Paper maps, and maps within
GPS's do have mistakes; with a little extra attention, these can
be detected and accounted for.

Lest you think this is a magic instrument, there are limitations.
The most often encountered are 1)You need to positively identify
any object that you sight on, and 2) The object that you sight on
should be within a few (10) miles: the farther away, the less accurate
your LOP will be.

There are some tricks to help with 1-identification,
but that is another story.

If you are in featureless terrain, you need a GPS, because
even the best compass will not get you a line-of-position.
With extremely methodical methods,  professionals can
maintain their position, but you are not them, so carry a
GPS in featureless terrain. Carry a cheap GPS anyway.


Offline .45 COLT

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2006, 02:50:03 AM »
Or, you could carry one of these around with you. Tripod adds a little more weight and bulk. ;D ;D ;D



DC
On the 19th of April, 1775, a tyrannical government sent an army to disarm its citizens. They ran into a touch of trouble.

Offline willysjeep134

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2006, 03:00:25 AM »
I think the trouble with cheap compasses is that they aren't built well enough to be consistent and accurate. One of those little plastic "fish eye" compasses may have it's little magnetic needle pinned in a few degrees off from north and unless you check it you wouldn't know.

You can use a little pocket compass without a base plate for some pretty accurate orienteering if you know how. Hold the compass with the tips of your index fingers and thumbs so that your fingertips touch in front and thumbs touch in back. Now tuck your hands into your chest or stomach. Instead of a direction of travel arrow on a baseplate compass, your fingertips point the direction. Turn until the little gap behind your fingertips lines up with what ever direction you want to travel. It is a good way to wring some accuracy out of those little pin on coat compasses.

Marbles used to make a great pin on compass. Now they are all imported! They turn out a brass case and put a little cheap liquid filled compass in there. The liquid helps buffer the needle, but it also forms bubbles during temperature swings which can throw off accuracy.

I like the Trunord pin on compass. It has a bigger more secure pin like the old marbles compasses. It also isn't liquid filled so bubbles don't form when the weather changes. It is also made in the USA which I look for in almost everything I buy. The Trunord is adjusted for declenation even! You have to send it back in to the factory to change this correction though. It is a whole bunch better than the chinese junk Marbles has been importing lately. The Trunord even appears to have an agate bearing for the needle, which makes it extremely smooth and dependable. It also has a dial type needle with luminous dots, so you can use it at night to some degree. I feel that it is an ideal compass for a hunter or hiker. I would probably carry a bigger compass if I had a lot of off-trail orienteering to do though, but I still feel the Trunord is the best small pin on compass out there.

Bigger compasses are more accurate, but a lot of timber cruising and exploring has been done with simple compasses too. If you get the technique right you can do some impressive orienteering.
If God wanted plastic stocks he would have made plastic trees.

Offline J-Train

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2006, 10:36:32 AM »
It looks like there are about as many opinions on compasses as there are on the best buy in a 1911 pistol!  I'll go with Bushwalker's recommendation.  I've been a professional forester for over 35 years, and I've used the Suunto and Silva mirror-style compasses for most of my work.  They're rugged, and can be read to the nearest degree--enough accuracy for most purposes.  You can get a good, serviceable one for under $20.  Check the forestry supply companies like Ben Meadows or Forestry Suppliers to see a good assortment of them. ;)

Offline prairiedog555

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2007, 01:36:17 PM »
no matter what compass I use, (usually my boyscout model) I check it every morn and evening, E and W and with the N. star at night.

Offline SDS-GEN

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2007, 01:19:11 PM »
I agree with the military compass, By the way they are made by Camenga.  The most useful thing you can have besides a compass is a protractor that shows degrees or mils.  Some compasses have one built in, the US gov makes a good plastic one for 1:25000, 1:50000, and 1:100000scale maps.  There may be better equipment out there(I don't experiment with compasses), I just feel comfortable with what I learned on and it has never let me down.

Offline WolfBrother

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Re: compasses what's good what's bad?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2007, 01:59:45 AM »
Compasses are only as good as the user!!  Please be sure to LEARN HOW to use a comass CORRECTLY!  Magnetic declination causes your compass to point to the MAGNETIC NORTH POLE and not the 'true' North Pole.  Do you know your declination for where you live???  This is the number of degrees and direction to the East or West of true north your compass will point.  This is a very important skill used jointly with map reading.

Go here -
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/struts/calcDeclination
enter your zip code - it'll give you your current declination.

Then for grins, change the year to 1997 then 1987.
This is what I got for my area:
2007 - Declination = 5° 4' E changing by 0° 7' W/year
1997 - Declination = 6° 9' E changing by 0° 5' W/year
1987 - Declination = 6° 5' E changing by 0° 4' W/year   

The magnetic pole has been moving for several years which changes the declination.  During a 20 year period, the declination for my area has changed by 1 degree west.
Over a long distance, 1 degree makes a difference.



WolfBrother