How much BP can I have without containment?

[Haywire Haywood]

Just wondering what the legal limit was before I have to containerize it.  I don't think for a minute I have even close to what I could legally, I'm just curious.

Ian

[SuperstitionCoues]

Haywire,

The answer to your question is a combination of local control with your Fire Marshall, and federal control with the BATF.  

Both my wife and I are or have been in the industry of making and storing low explosives ( I quit and went back to grad school),  and thus dealing with both the local FD and BATF auditors.  Personally,  as this stuff will behave differently than smokeless powder, I wouldn't want more than five pounds of it around without storage in a "bunny box"  type of magazine.  FYI - a bunny box is a magazine storage device that is about the size of a medium safe, with either a two or five (can't remember which) hour fire rating (NFPA standards).

My two cents?  Keep it below five pounds, keep it out and/or away from your house,  and consider using Pyrodex instead.  P'dex is much more stable and easier to clean out of your muzzleloader.   Don't get me wrong - I'm not afraid of it.  Just too many years dealing with this stuff not to have a healthy respect for it.

Matt

[Haywire Haywood]

I thought about keeping it in my workshop (60yds from the house) but it's much more likely to come into contact with sparks or fire out there than in my reloading room in the house.  I do have a 27gun fire-resistant safe I could put it in, but it sits about 3 ft from the foot of my bed.   :-D

thanks for the info and advice,
Ian

[wile326]

Here are 2 links to the ATFE website with the regualtions governing how much blackpowder you can own for your own sporting use. The first link covers the amount, 50lbs, and the second covers storage. These are the federal regulations, your local regulations might be different.



http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05dec20031700/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/27cfr555.41.htm


http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05dec20031700/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/aprqtr/27cfr555.210.htm


I use a magazine that I bought from cabelas, it meets or exceeds BATF regulations and specifications for a Type 4 indoor portable magazine. It will hold up to 50lbs.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=srchdx&id=0012533213975a&navCount=2&podId=0012533&parentId=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IF&rid=&parentType=&indexId=&hasJS=true

I keep mine in my shop also and it has really worked out well.

[Haywire Haywood]

No indoor magazine is to be located in a residence or dwelling

I suppose this only applies if you are required to have a magazine in the first place.  I wonder how they would act if you had a magazine but only had 5 lbs in it.  On one hand, you have one and it is illegal to have it in your house.  On the other hand, you don't have enough powder to require it to be in a magazine in the first place.   Gray area.

Ian

[roundball]

No indoor magazine is to be located in a residence or dwelling

I suppose this only applies if you are required to have a magazine in the first place.  I wonder how they would act if you had a magazine but only had 5 lbs in it.  On one hand, you have one and it is illegal to have it in your house.  On the other hand, you don't have enough powder to require it to be in a magazine in the first place.   Gray area.

Ian

You have to be careful to read BATF regs in the correct context.
There is a 50lb possession limit on BP stored in single family dwellings to be used for recreational purposes.
There is no license or storage requirement for up to these 50lbs in a single family residential dwelling.

Your state may add additional regs.

While I fully respect BP, and use nothing but Goex year round in various Flintlocks, it is not nitroglycerine, not magic, etc...after all, when I buy a 25lb case of it at a time, it's shipped to me cross country in a simple cardboard box.

I store it in the bottom of a closet in the cardboard box it arrived in, along with various other hunting / shooting items, where it is out of harms way.

By the time any fire ever get big enough to heat up and ignite that BP, it would have had the house so totally engulfed in flames by then that I would have long since died from smoke inhalation, or will have gotten out of the house, or been away from the house, etc...

The format of the BATF regs is difficult to follow sometimes, but you are free and clear to buy and have in your single family reesidence up to 50lbs BP, no license, no magazine, etc...even the post 9/11 Patriot Act did not make any changes to the recreational-use section of the BP regs.

[SuperstitionCoues]

[

My two cents?  Keep it below five pounds, keep it out and/or away from your house,  and consider using Pyrodex instead.  P'dex is much more stable and easier to clean out of your muzzleloader.   Don't get me wrong - I'm not afraid of it.  Just too many years dealing with this stuff not to have a healthy respect for it.

Haywire,

Now that I thought more about it, please don't take what I wrote previously as an interpretation of what the regs say.  My opinion and sentiments regarding BP and the amount stored is colored by two facts.

First,  that the Phoenix AZ FD Marshal has significant influence out here, valley-wide.  For some reason, the local FD's in the Phoenix Metro area have banned the sale of BP from retailers.  In order to get a pound or more, I have to drive 2+hours to Tucson and spend ~$15+ per pound. Then there is the drive back.  On the other hand, I can run down the street 12 blocks to WallyWorld and spend ~10 to $12 on a pound of Pyrodex.  

Second, my experience, as I have already discussed.  So, I purposely keep it low; my personal preference.

Neither of these should influence you from storing the amount you are able to under legal limits.  If your locality and circumstance allows you to purchase a case and keep it easily, so be it.  I am envious of your situation.  

For what it's worth, our experience has been that it is the local FD that is the bigger hurdle to get around.  Dealing with BATF in terms of compliance is no worse than anything else.  The local FD is who may begin to start putting restrictions about.   I hope this helps.

Matt

[Haywire Haywood]

I have never had more than 2 or 3 lbs, I was just wondering about the legalities.  :-)

Ian

[victorcharlie]

Black Powder seems to be getting hard to find around here as well....Walmart doesn't carry it, but does carry pyrodex an 777.......My local dealer tells me that Black Powder is covered by a new set of regulations after 9-11 and there is a $500 fee, tax or whatever you want to call it; to handle the stuff......says it takes all the margin out of the product for guys that don't sell a lot, or makes it so expensive no one will buy it..........That's the story I got.........Either way, with gas prices the way they are I'm not driving a long way to get some.....I'm shooting pyrodex, which shoots very well out of my 50 Cal. TC Renegade with green mountain barrel...........I've considered ordering some BP but understand there is a $20 hazmat fee for shipping Black Powder?  Anyone know if that's true?

[Haywire Haywood]

Yep you can order it from Graf's pretty cheap, $10.59/lb but there is a $20 hazmat charge per package, not per lb.  My cost here is $12.50/lb and a 90 minute drive.   If your costs are similar, you could make up the charge if you went in with some friends and bought 10lbs or more.  That doesn't inlcude the savings in gas money.  A case is 25 cans, so that is the max you can get for the $20 hazmat fee.  They will mix and match grades up the to max 25 cans also.

Ian

[roundball]

I have never had more than 2 or 3 lbs, I was just wondering about the legalities.  :-)

Ian

Some folks play golf on the weekends, I shoot Flintlocks every weekend so I go through a lot of powder and always order it by the case, $10.25/lb delivered to my door...have a partial case of 3F and a partial case of 2F on hand at any given time, so I stay pretty current with my legalities