Author Topic: New mwmber says hello and has question... (Read 780 times)

Paul Ellsworth · « **on:** October 25, 2005, 01:48:15 PM »

Glad to be here, look forward to sharing what little I may know about the world and to learn from the rest of you!

I just finished the book land sets and trapping techniques by charles Dobbins... Good book. My question is about the chapter "Prebaiting" Mr. Dobbins talks about using something that causes the canines to deficate. this is a great idea...but he does not elaborate on what it is that causes this reaction... thanks Charlie!

What I would like to know is what is it, can I buy it and mix it in my regular canine baits/lures? or is there a lure maker that sells such a thing? any respose would be greatly appriciated.

Bogmaster · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2005, 04:51:12 PM »

I sell Dobbins bait solution,but have no idea if this causes the responce you are looking for.
Tom

Paul Ellsworth · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2005, 05:07:06 PM »

I have some of that bait solution that has been getting ready for the line for 11 months and am looking forward to trying it, but I don't think that was it. My dogs love it but it does not make them deficate.

Charles used something when scouting. He would mix it up and was different from his regular bait or lures, it was all liquid and it would cause the canines to deficate at the locations he put it out and that way he could tell shorthand if it was canines or nontargets visiting his prebait location.

I thought his would be a great tidbit of knowledge, if there was a known ingredient that I could learn about that could use in the same way.

Bubber · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2005, 11:20:10 AM »

The only thing I can think of that would possibley cause that reaction would be a gland lure. I know they will frequently urinate around a post or somthing that has been smeared with some gland lure but it is not often that I see them deficate at such a spot. So in short I have no idea.

jim-NE · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2005, 03:42:27 PM »

Paul,
That's an interesting book, isn't it? I have a well-thumbed signed copy handed down to me from my uncle Fred. He had Charlie sign it when he was out here in Nebraska back when the Nationals were here. That book is my land trapping bible. I dig it out every year about 2-3 months ahead of season and keep it handy. Seems like every time I read it I pick up some little tidbit I'd overlooked before. But, for as many species and topics as he covers in the book, the book itself is rather thin and includes pictures. Sometimes I wished he would have really opened up and sold a thicker novel. Elaborating on some of those finer points of wisdom would have been a great treasure.
Jim-NE

Paul Ellsworth · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2005, 07:31:08 PM »

Is it me or have I hit on something that no one wishes to discuss. I can not believe that there is not someone out there that has been making lures or trapping canines besides Charlie Dobbins that would have an answer to this question. Or was Mr dobbins just blowing smoke?

I would even appreciate a

"nanny nanny pooh pooh I know and you don't and I am not telling."
at least you would be being honest. Or is useful knowledge of this sort kinda like discussing the live animal market all hush hush.....

Bogmaster · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:04:19 AM »

Paul,not all questions get the answer we may be looking for. I answered honestly===I do not know. I talk to hundreds,if not thousands of trappers each year.Not once I have I ever heard your question discussed.It seems to be a question that few give much thought.
No one here is keeping secrets from you. It just seems ro be a question few have sought the answer to.
Tom

Bogmaster · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:19:31 AM »

Paul,I should have answered this question first. Charlie Dobbins, never was a "Smoke Blower". He always answered questions honestly.He studied animal behavior and responces,unlike anyone I have ever known.
I was lucky,being in the supply business, I spent many hours in conversations with Mr. Dobbins===he was a true gentleman.If he didn't have an answer on some aspect of trapping,he would tell you.That is why his books and articles are so interesting---they make us think.
Tom

Wackyquacker · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2005, 10:41:40 AM »

I have had coyotes and Greys crap just about everywhere around a set including on the trap. :cry: I have seen this occur with gland lures and tainted bait plus mild lures. I think it to be a nervous reaction as much as a territorial response. Oft times I have the culpert in the next trap with is frequently insight; or was that an different crittter? I know of no lure that will cause this response with great regularity; or do I catch the critter before he does his deed or does he do his deed within the catch circle and I never know because he destroyes things after he is caught.

If Charlie remarked on this behavior I'll bet he observed critters at grub stakes where there was no trap to foil their efforts.

Asa Lenon · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:59:25 PM »

I agree with wackyquacker, no specifice attractor i've ever used would elicit a defication response consistently. Like Wacky, i've had coyotes occasionally leave a turd at sets that were lured with gland lures, food lures, curiosity lures urine/gland lures and plain urine. The sets were hole sets, blind sets and post sets. With all due respect to Mr Dobbins, unless the testing was done at mock sets with no trap, few canines would survive a well placed and well guided set long enough to know how many might leave their marking. Ace

Paul Ellsworth · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2005, 08:09:03 PM »

Wow thanks for the responses Tom, Whacky and Asa that was quick.

Of course you are right Tom but it would be nice to get a response like:
"ahh oh yeah chocolate syrup will do that every time" but then that would be too easy.

I do not really think that Charles Dobbins was blowing smoke but it would have been nice to know what he was using.... but then if trapping were easy... it would not be interesting.

Asa he was indeed using it without traps, what he would do is drive a rod in the ground to make a small hole then put in a liquid something (undisclosed) down the hole while doing preseason scouting. he did this right along the road before asking permissions to trap. he discovered the mysterious "secret" ingredient that cause canines to defecate and used it so he could tell real quick at the stops if it was canines or non-targets working the sets. then he would ask permissions and put out more of these places.... he never trapped at them but made sets close by. The ones by the road he deactivated with something that he disclosed so that other trappers would not see the signs as well and invite competition.

Anyway I thought that would be a really useful tool to add. I guess I will just have to spend the time and effort to "let the animals teach me" like I so often tell the new trappers on the other sights...

funny my own advice comming back to haunt me now....

RdFx · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2005, 01:48:54 AM »

Aha, "Let the animals teach me" Very wise quote and why Charley learned so much from observing. A Blackfoot indian told me one time; OBSERVE, PATIENCE and DONT ASSUME; another wise quote and i believe Charley had those attributes. Im still learning today with 50 yrs on the line which is why it is always interesting to let the animals teach you.