Author Topic: Chai Vang murder update  (Read 4491 times)

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Offline Questor

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Chai Vang murder update
« on: September 16, 2005, 03:27:30 AM »
http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/5616664.html

In summary, I think Vang just put himself in prison forever after yesterday's little outburst.  I'd be surprised if the jury deliberates very long in this trial before finding him guilty on all counts.  Can you imagine what his lawyer felt after that? It's got to be great experience in defending an almost impossible case.

I'd be curious to know what landowners think about this case. Personally, if I were to stray onto someone's property during deer season, knowingly tresspassing, and taking a position in one of the owner's tree stands, I'd fully expect to get a tongue lashing if caught.  Deer seasons are mighty short here, and are a state institution among owners of hunting land. These kinds of tresspass don't just happen accidentally.  I'd even expect a tongue-lashing about half the time if I were to stray onto someones land and  be caught walking there outside of deer season.  The other half of the time I'd expect a calm and factual explanation of the property boundaries.  

I'd also like to know what kinds of reactions landowners have gotten from peope they've caught tresspassing.  My reaction, and I've strayed accidentally a couple of times, has been to be terribly embarrassed and copiously apologetic.  I would then leave immediately according to the landowners directions and always be careful not to tresspass there again.
Safety first

Offline Geno

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2005, 04:36:32 AM »
I couldn't agree with you more. Any talk of Disrespect and Culture clash and differences is nothing but a very sorry excuse. When I was younger, I mistakenly and/or thoughtlessly trespassed and was caught by land owners a couple times. I was very humble, embarassed, apologetic. If I remember right, took the tongue lashing or whatever I had coming and made a hasty exit off the property. There is little or no excuse to do anything else. If I remember correctly, early on in this story, Mr. Vang has been accused of past violations. He's been in this country 30 years. I beleive this is his culture and language as much as any other. no excuse, no reason for his actions.

Offline Robert

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2005, 05:03:55 AM »
HAYWARD, WIS. -- A courtroom full of people sat in stunned silence Thursday as Chai Soua Vang ended his murder trial with the bold declaration that some of the six deer hunters he killed deserved to die because they were disrespectful.

In a cross-examination that may devastate Vang's claim that he was acting in self-defense, he said landowner Robert Crotteau and his 20-year-old son, Joe, deserved what they got when Vang chased them down and fatally shot each in the back, though Vang acknowledged that neither was armed.

Robert Crotteau deserved to die "because he's the one who confronted me and called me names and that's just who he is," Vang testified, as members of Crotteau's family appeared tearful and stunned.

Joe Crotteau deserved to die " 'cause he accused me of giving him the finger and tried to cut in front of me," Vang said, after describing how the younger Crotteau blocked him from leaving as his father profanely berated Vang for trespassing on the family's hunting land.

Chai Soua VangJeffrey PhelpsAssociated PressAfter jurors had left the courtroom and Vang's mother, siblings and children were allowed to speak with him, Vang sank weeping to his knees while his family surrounded him and prayed with him in Hmong, Vang's native language.

But during more than three hours of testimony, Vang, 36, of St. Paul, showed little emotion or remorse over killing the six hunters and wounding two others last Nov. 21 on private hunting land in southern Sawyer County, Wis.

"I was scared," he said. "I was confused."

Vang continued: "I wished this was not happening. ... I did what I had to do to defend myself."

Vang maintained that he opened fire only after Terry Willers, who owned the property with Robert Crotteau, fired a shot toward Vang as he walked away following what he decribed as profanity-laced, racist tongue-lashing by Crotteau.

Willers and Lauren Hesebeck, the only two members of the group who survived, testified this week that Willers never shot at Vang or even pointed his gun toward him. They said Willers was the only member of the group who was armed. They acknowledged that Robert Crotteau yelled at Vang using the "f-word" and threatened to beat him up if he ever returned, but they said no one called Vang any racist names.

Defense attorney Steven Kohn told jurors as the trial got underway Saturday that they would see how the entire confrontation filled Vang with fear and forced him to act on instinct to defend himself -- a legal defense in murder cases.

But prosecutor Roy Korte told jurors that Vang was motivated more by anger over the way Crotteau treated him, and Crotteau's promise to report him to authorities for trespassing.

And during cross-examination Thursday by Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager, Vang appeared to play into the prosecution's hands.

When she confronted Vang with a recorded statement he gave in which he said some of the hunters deserved to die, Vang responded matter-of-factly that the statement was true.

Lautenschlager ran down the list of victims, saying each name and asking Vang which deserved to die. Vang said that three -- the Crotteaus for how they treated him and Allan Laski because he had a gun -- deserved to die.

Prosecution witnesses disputed that Laski had a gun when he and Willers' daughter, Jessica Willers, jumped on an ATV and rushed to the scene of the shootings after hearing victims call for help on two-way radios. Police found no gun or evidence of one near Laski's body, they testified.

Vang testified that he shot them both because Laski stopped the ATV near Vang and was holding a rifle, looking Vang's way. But he also acknowledged fatally shooting Jessica Willers.

"She didn't have a gun?" Lautenschlager asked.

"No," Vang replied.

"Is there a reason you shot her?"

"My sense is I just open fire before they shoot me," Vang replied.

Judge Norman Yackel told jurors Thursday that the case would be in their hands some time today after attorneys make their closing arguments.

After an emotional afternoon of testimony that left many courtroom spectators in tears, Vang's elderly mother, a Hmong immigrant who speaks little English, released a translated statement in which she offered condolences to the victims' families.

"I share your grief and will mourn your losses for the rest of my life," Sao Vang said in a statement read by Vang's daughter Kia Vang.

She also defended her son as a good person who helped his entire family adjust to a new country, and thanked the Hayward community -- especially the police -- for treating the family with compassion.

Only Chai Vang, Terry Willers and Lauren Hesebeck know exactly what happened that day in the woods, she said, "and they must live with that the rest of their lives."

"My hope is that in the end," God will render justice, she said. She ended with what she said were the words of her jailed son in a conversation with her the day before:

"All of this could have been prevented if we could only learn to respect one another."
....make it count

Offline Mauser

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2005, 05:21:33 AM »
If there was a normal jury on this case, I would agree that his goose would be cooked.  However the jury was picked from Dane County, Wis of "the People's Republic of Madison" fame.  It would not shock me if those liberals let him go or find him insane and not guilty.  Also the AG of Wisc, who is trying the case, is a dyed in the wool liberal and is neither a great trial lawyer nor sympathic with hunters--not a good combination here.

Offline R.W.Dale

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2005, 05:22:29 AM »
Does Wisconsin have a death penalty? If ever there was a case where it sould apply this would be it.

Offline armory414

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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2005, 06:28:06 AM »
"I'd also like to know what kinds of reactions landowners have gotten from peope they've caught tresspassing."

Most of the reactions I get from people I've had to put off my land are arrogant.  They feel that they have a right to be there, that they are entitled to free access to private land, and that the landowner should step aside and let them on.  I have been verbally threatened by trespassers on a number of occasions, I've had one guy point a rifle at me, and another try to run me over with his vehicle.  I no longer approach anyone on my land unless I am carrying.

Offline Questor

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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2005, 07:06:53 AM »
Armory414:

That is truly surprising. What state are you in? I know there are some boneheads here in the upper midwest, particularly in rural areas far from the cities.  

As for the jury, I don't see how they can fail to find him guilty on all counts. It would make no sense at all, given the long string of damning admissions and testimonies given by the accused himself.  The whole argument is that he doesn't deny killing six people and nearly killing two others.  Then he goes on the stand and says, in animated fashion, that the deceased deserved to die because they had bad manners.  That's quite an argument.  There are also no facts that seem to help him in any way.
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Offline Lone Star

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2005, 09:17:22 AM »
Quote
As for the jury, I don't see how they can fail to find him guilty on all counts. It would make no sense at all, given the long string of damning admissions and testimonies given by the accused himself..
No disrespect intended Questor (so you have no reason to chase me down and shoot me in the back!), but "sense" and testimony are meaningless for many jurors.  Witness the OJ trial.   :cry:

Think about it - every one I know tries to get out of jury duty - but I do not and have served an many juries.  In short, what you get is a room full of people too stupid to get out of jury duty.  It is worse in some areas, especially those whose working population is "too busy" to perform this basic civil duty.  The juries I was on were usually (not always) full of old retired folks with nothing better to do, students with no good excuse, and the unemployed.  Hardly a typical cross-section of the American landscape.  Add in judges who should be discharged (witness the recent banning of the pledge of allegence!) and idiotic verdicts are almost guaranteed.   :evil:

Again: Sense too often has nothing to do with a jury's verdict. :shock:

Offline Questor

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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2005, 09:33:06 AM »
Well Lone Star, ya got me there. I stand corrected. Your argument is unassailable.

I remember working with a guy who used to be called for jury duty regularly, but he never served on a jury.  He never tried to get out of it either. He was a career Air Force man who had been a WWII fighter pilot.  This profile meant that he was assumed to be biased against drugs and crime, so he usually spent the entire week going from one room in the courthouse to another, and being rejected for one case after another.
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Offline myronman3

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2005, 12:49:04 PM »
guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty.  all eight counts; he is done.

Offline Dusty Miller

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« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2005, 09:10:24 PM »
I really wish this guy had not been an Aisian immigrant 'cus the liberals and Jesse Jackson types are going to scream DISCRIMINATION until the cows come home.  But, from what I've seen of the case this guy was a cold blooded murderer.  Whatta shame, everybody loses.  Its a heartbreaking situation all the way around.
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Offline WNY_Whitetailer

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2005, 02:20:47 AM »
You don't shoot people on the back out of fear for your life...You shoot them in the back because you are a murdering SOB...String him up.  :x
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Offline ratgunner

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2005, 02:21:15 AM »
VERY GOOD REPORT OF BLOW BY BLOW COURT PROCEDINGS ,ROBERT.PLEASE KEEP US UPDATED.THANKS.
"Non Gratum Anus Rodentum"

Offline palgeno

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Guilty
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2005, 02:57:47 AM »
Story found in today's Kenosha News quotes Vang's sister railing against "all white" jury---predictable. This just reinforces reactions to label his entire family as murdering scum since they are condoning the actions of an admitted "shoot 'em in the back" cold blooded killer. :evil:  :evil:  :evil: pg
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Offline Jim D

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Vang convicted !!!!!
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2005, 11:53:32 AM »
He was found guilty of (6) six counts of first degree murder. Too bad Wisconsin does not have death penalty.

Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2005, 01:23:13 PM »
Instead of prison turn him over to the families of those he killed.  As a landowner I have had to escort hunters off my property that strayed onto the my land.  Arrested a few that came back and got caught.  a couple of them were known marijuana growers but we found them before they could get a crop going.  Never confront people alone anymore.  always have someone else with me covering my back from cover.  Times aren’t like they were 20 years plus years ago.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline ratgunner

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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2005, 10:06:11 AM »
I just hope Vang finds a big 300 pound boyfriend in prison to love him to death. :-D
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Offline nomosendero

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2005, 06:59:51 PM »
This is about the best example of why a state should not drop the death
penalty that I am aware of. He should be fried right away!!!
But since he can't be, I am with you, ratgunner.
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Offline EdK

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2005, 02:44:02 AM »
Quote from: Lone Star
Quote
Think about it - every one I know tries to get out of jury duty - but I do not and have served an many juries.


I do not try to get out of jury duty either, however, while being called several times, I have never sat on a single one. It's part of the process. After the defense attorney uses any possible legitimate angle to eject each and every prospective juror that does not fit his desired "profile", he then is allowed to eject one or two more for no reason. I always fall into the latter category. I do not cry out: "oh yes, I believe in the death penalty" when being interviewed. It's simply a matter of them looking at you, sizing you up as a potential threat (e.g. education, profession, etc.) and then tossing you aside!

Offline palgeno

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Filthy Murderer
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2005, 02:49:03 AM »
Kenosha News (crappy socialist rag) this am----printed an AP story stating that Vang is a "person of interest" in a previous murder of a hunter a couple of years ago --- shot in the back twice.  3 men of asian appearance seen speeding away from the area in a blue pickup truck. Men unidentified, truck from out of state, murder unsolved so far. :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil: pg
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Offline Mikey

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2005, 04:36:42 AM »
Fellas - this issue is off topic for the forum.  Let's either wrap it up or I will ask the Boss to move it on down to the Political Action Forum or one of the others.  Thanks.  Mikey.

Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2005, 08:31:56 AM »
Quote from: Mikey
Fellas - this issue is off topic for the forum.  Let's either wrap it up or I will ask the Boss to move it on down to the Political Action Forum or one of the others.  Thanks.  Mikey.


Mikey,

Most times I would agree with you but this time the incident occurred during deer hunting season while hunting.  So in my opinion it belongs under a hunting forum as there is nothing political about it..  I guess you're just lucky it got stuck under Handgun Hunting.  Basically it’s just us hunters/shooters venting our displeasure, horror and now relief over what happened.  I may be wrong but that’s my take/view on this thread.
Lawdog
 :D
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Offline ratgunner

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« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2005, 09:45:26 AM »
I agree with Lawdog if those hunters were handgunners maybe they would have been more likely to have been armed instead of leaving their weapons at camp ,the handier issue.Also there was a post about who here is amusician by a moderator on a hunting forum and it was a hot tpoic and nobody had a problem with that.Maybe you just disagree with some of our opinions.It most certainly is hunting related.Just my 2 pennies worth. :D
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Offline Mikey

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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2005, 03:43:18 AM »
Alright fellas, I'll let it ride.  I do not disagree with anyone's position here, the man is a murderer, possibly on more than one occassion, has shown a complete disregard for human life and from his own testimony seems quite detached from the reality of his actions.  The court ruled justly, there was really no contest.  And yes, this did occur during hunting season.  I'm certain that if those folks had been handgun hunters this situation would have been resolved differently, but let's not speculate.

The concern for us all during this upcoming season is that we remain safe and have a good, successful hunting season.  There are many ways to deal with trespassers without endangering anyone.  Let's just all stay safe.  Mikey.

Offline Lawdog

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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2005, 09:56:21 AM »
Mikey,

Quote
The concern for us all during this upcoming season is that we remain safe and have a good, successful hunting season. There are many ways to deal with trespassers without endangering anyone. Let's just all stay safe.


Amen Brother.   :D   One other thing to all land owners, if you find trespassers on your property call the local authorities and let them handle it.  As Mikey said lets everyone, hunters and land owners alike, have a safe hunting season this year.  Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Lawful Larry

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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2005, 12:41:32 PM »
If this character thinks he was desrespected, wait till he meets Big Bubba in the joint.  He will have to come up with a new discription of the meaning after Big Bubba is through with him.  

I still can't beleive this happened.  One should always be very aware and alert of their situation and surroundings when out in th wild.  I only hope I don't see this kind of horror in print again.  Stay safe, all.
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Offline Lawdog

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The Judge hands down the sentence
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2005, 11:44:01 AM »
The Judge hands down the sentence.   :roll:   Chai Vang will spend the rest of his life in prison without the possibility for parole for killing six deer hunters and wounding two in western Wisconsin.

Quote
After an emotional hearing, Judge Norman Yackel sentenced Vang, 37, to life-plus-five-years in prison on each of the six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and 65 years in prison for each of the three counts of attempted homicide. The judge described the shootings as a "horrific event" and an "ambush."


I hope Vang gets his when they dtick him in general population.   :twisted:   Lawdog
 :D
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Offline Siskiyou

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Chai Vang murder update
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2005, 11:58:58 AM »
I would not be surprised that he is moved to an out of state prison.  Not an unheard of practice with high profile prisoners.  In addition to being at risk from other inmates they may not be Safe around him.  The need to House him in a Death Penalty State.  Because his little bubble will burst again.  If he is housed out of Wisconsin he will blow his cover.

Because of his history, he will not have a cell mate.  And he will have very short exercise periods in a cage outside of his cell.
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