Author Topic: 243 or 308 Handi (Read 951 times)

JKump · « **on:** November 02, 2005, 07:35:08 AM »

I currently have a NEF ultra light Handi rifle in .243. I hunted last year with it for Ga. Deer and did fine. ( 5 killed). Now I have an opportunity to trade it even for a NEF Handi rifle in .308 (NEF survivor w/bull barrel). I know I could get extra barrel for the rifle, but season is in and I don't want to be with out rifle. Should I make the trade? The rifle will be used deer hunting and possibly on hogs. An help is appreciated. :lol:

myarmor · « **Reply #1 on:** November 02, 2005, 07:39:38 AM »

If it was the off season then I would say go for it, but seeing that you have already done well with your 243 and are comfortable and used to it,I say hold off. Use the 243 untill the end of rifle season then send in the receiver to get fitted for a brand new 308 barrel, or what ever you want.
Thats just what I would do.
But it's your choice, and both are great calibers.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 02, 2005, 08:06:58 AM »

Quote

Should I make the trade? The rifle will be used deer hunting and possibly on hogs. An help is appreciated. Laughing

No..like myarmor already said...it's too close to season to be messing around with a proven rifle and load...wait till after season...and get another barrel for it..

Mac

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 02, 2005, 08:43:32 AM »

yea i won't touch my .308 aside shooting till deer season is over for me.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #4 on:** November 02, 2005, 11:55:55 AM »

some believe that the .243 - because it's good for deer - is good for black bear. if that line of reasoning is true, then why not hunt black bear with a .223 or .22-250?

i think it's all falsehood to hunt bear, AND HOGS WHICH ARE MORE DANGEROUS, with a .243 just because it can kill a whitetail.

i'd stick with the .243 for now, but get something equal to a .25-06 or larger for hogs, preferably a .270 or larger in case it wants to KILL you!

hogs can carry a lot of lead if they aren't hit right. if hit from quartering behind, they can be much easier to kill. will you be guaranteed that kind of shot, and is it worth getting hurt over?

take care,

ss'

lostsniper308 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 02, 2005, 12:53:58 PM »

while i've never hunted anything that could kill you, my precaution would be is if it can kill you use a .30 caliber or larger.

bladerunner · « **Reply #6 on:** November 02, 2005, 01:09:01 PM »

like all the others have said,I'd wait till after deer season and get another barrel,but i will say that i'd feel more comfy with a .308 (or 7MM-08)or larger for hogs.....an injured hog is very dangerous and you want something to stop him with FAAAAST.I'm not saying that a well placed bullet from a .243 won't kill him,It will,but a marginal hit could prove to be more excitement than you bargained for.Just my thoughts

DavOh · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2005, 03:55:26 AM »

I gotta say I agree with the guys here. Stick with the .243 for the rest of deer season. Dont mess with success...

Now for hogs. People have mentioned that a .308 would be better. Better? Maybe. But you gotta get it in the "boiler room"
I've seen hogs run 100+ yds with multiple 185 gr .308 rounds in the shoulder. and even watched one get up and shake off a hit between the eyes like it was a .22... Granted it was well over 100 yds, but still.... unless I got real proficient with the handi, I'd stick to a bolt gun or auto-loader for Hogs. Particularly a heavy round in .30-06. Especially in close quarters, deep woods area. Last thing I want to do is piss of a 300+ lb Boar when he's close. Too close for comfort. Used to bowhunt for hogs back in the day. Learned real quick to be up a tree when that arrow hit.

just my 1/50th of a buck's worth.......

bajabill · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2005, 04:20:53 AM »

caliber considerations aside,

I would not make the trade because I have no need to carry any little chattering gizmos in my gun stock :-D nor do I hunt in a canoe :eek:

but, some people like that survivor stock because I never see one that wont sell in the classifieds. Perhaps I am the odd.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 03, 2005, 06:27:04 AM »

Perhaps???

Norseman112 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2005, 07:32:35 AM »

Its a little late in the game to be switching rifles with hunting season close. If you want a bigger rifle I would save my money and buy another barrel or two.

Norse

Mac11700 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2005, 07:46:30 AM »

Quote

unless I got real proficient with the handi, I'd stick to a bolt gun or auto-loader for Hogs.

Does having a bolt or auto loader make you a better hunter of hogs than opposed to carrying a single shot?.....Carrying a single shot takes a commitment on your part to become proficeint with it...making sure you have the optimum load and that you can hit your mark...

Quote

i think it's all falsehood to hunt bear, AND HOGS WHICH ARE MORE DANGEROUS, with a .243 just because it can kill a whitetail.

Correct me if I'm wrong..nowhere did I see where JKump talked about hunting bear..just hogs...and just for the sake of argument..we have a growing population of hogs here in Missouri...some have grown quite large from what the conservation folks have told me...and they hunt them with a 22 mag successfully...so the 243 is more than capable..so...I would say shot placement and bullet construction and range to the target is more of an issue here ,over personal preferences....A few "if's" need to be addressed to qualify this...If the hog or deer is close enough(especially the hog) and.. if the rifle is a tack driver and... if the person pulling the trigger is capable of making the shot and... if the best bullet is used...the 243 will work...plain and simple...both have been used for years killing far larger and more dangerous critters...and I see no problem using either one for your intended usage...but...refere to the if's above....

Would I use one...sure...provided all the if's were yes...as above and I would be certain of the range and load...and I already know my shooting capabilities is up to the test..but the beauty of the great little rifles is...I can choose something bigger...so I don't need to be so close and give me a better chance of being un-noticed..and I would advise the same for anyone else...they do make reduced factory loads that will give more range and killing power while not hurting the shoulder in the larger calibers...and it would benifit you to look into them after deer season...The heavy bull barrelled 308's are usually good shooters...and will give you a-lot more range with larger better constucted bullets and would make a fine addition to your lineup...If you do go after hogs with your 243...use a stout bullet..like a Triple shock...or a Nosler Partition..or a Speer Grand Slam...and develope a good hand load for it..deer bullets and varmint bullets should be used for their intended purposes...not hunting the heavy boned- tough hide animals....

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2005, 08:29:02 AM »

Hog anatomy requires different bullet placement than on a deer and most shooters who blame lost animals on bullet or caliber failure should learn where to place their bullets to avoid a liver shot or worse, a gut shot hog which I think happens more often than not. And ya still need to use a well constructed bullet to get thru the "plate" or grisly shield that protects their vitals. Lightly contructed bullets of even .30 cal or larger aren't going to work well.

Quote

also want to point out how far forward the PAUNCH or the STOMACH and INTESTINES actually are located. TAKE A CLOSE look at the final photo![at the link below] You can see the Paunch is all the way up into the lower shoulder and actually rests against the heart. So the popular belief of placing a shot "BEHIND THE SHOULDER" will do nothing but rupture intestines and liver. This shot will leave a wounded hog running for hundreds of yards. The blood trail will usually end at around 100 yards when the blood coagulates and plugs up. Although the hog will die, they are rarely recovered.

http://www.texasboars.com/anatomy.html

safetysheriff · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2005, 12:43:00 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700

Quote
unless I got real proficient with the handi, I'd stick to a bolt gun or auto-loader for Hogs.

Quote
i think it's all falsehood to hunt bear, AND HOGS WHICH ARE MORE DANGEROUS, with a .243 just because it can kill a whitetail.

Correct me if I'm wrong..nowhere did I see where JKump talked about hunting bear..just hogs...and just for the sake of argument..we have a growing population of hogs here in Missouri...some have grown quite large from what the conservation folks have told me...and they hunt them with a 22 mag successfully...so the 243 is more than capable..so...

Mac

Mac'

I think you missed the point -- that I was extrapolating....with my saying that his deer rifle is not really worthy of black bear hunting, and that (on the average, compared to a black bear) hogs are more dangerous.

Let's be honest, they say a woman once survived a bear attack by getting her mitten stuck in the bears mouth, which caused the bear to choke to death! I'm seriously telling you that I read that one. So why don't we all go hunting with our mittens and leave the firearms at home???

The Inuits reputedly hunt with small caliber rifles against dangerous game, as I remember. But, what's the point? We're here to help a man or woman who did not grow up as an Inuit or a Massai (killing lions with a spear!) but as just average Joe's or Jane's who may get hurt or killed while pursuing a 'part-time' hobby against a dangerous animal.

I've posted before that the NRA Hunter had an article years ago where a hog was killed very easily by a .223 Rem' PSP when hit in the lungs from behind the grissle plate....with the lungs being all torn up! Again, so what? No one can guarantee that your hog hunt will go well, and that you won't be attacked. Even if you hunt over bait from a stand, you eventually must get down on the ground to leave the area where the hogs are hunted.

Know what I really think? Hunt hogs with a Ruger revolver in .44 mag' and never, never look back, IF you're courageous, relatively fast, accurate, and use the right bullet.....cause if you lose to a hog, it can open you up like a cheap tin can! Ask the guys who have lost dogs to wild boar that ripped 'em wide open.

Sorry to preach; but I hope no one gets hurt, either.

ss'

JKump · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2005, 03:04:43 AM »

Just an up date, I did get the 308. The 243 which was okay, however, Friday (11-04-05) I shot 3 deer. The 1st shot at 15 yards ran over 100 yards thru the woods and over a creek before dropping, the 2nd shot at 45 yards dropped right there and the last shot at 120 yards was hit but I was unable to find. I wanted a little more knock down power.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #15 on:** November 07, 2005, 12:11:09 PM »

JK'

with your original post being about hog hunting, as well as deer, i advised a larger, more powerful caliber purchase when it would be timely. that being said, i think that we don't consider what is required of a small caliber like the .243 to 'clobber' a whitetail. i do not hunt with the caliber, for one, but know others who have....and one who put down a monster that probably weighed over 320 lbs! but he put 2 bullets of 100 gr's each into the neck of that rutting buck(he died chasing a doe) before it went down.

my point? sure you've got to hit them in the right place, but you've also got to get proper "terminal performance" from the bullet. that's why i'd use 80 to 90 bullets of proper construction (what i deem proper) in the .243 to hit deer with a bullet of medium penetration but relatively quick expansion. i'd use the 87 gr' hornady spire point or something of similar performance if i could find it. it'd be Fast, shoot Flat, and open up readily on the thin/relatively lightweight structure of a whitetail.

you can kill a lot of deer with a .243! i've seen it done by nuisance-hunting landowners i load for -- using a .223 with 55 and 60 gr' hornady spire points! (at ranges under 200 yds for the bigger deer) i think you just need to use a similar principle with the .243 in your bullet selection.

take care,

ss'

poncaguy · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2005, 12:59:28 PM »

My 308 is one of my most accurate Handi's, it was a Survivor model, but I installed the Choate Varmit stock on it. Reduced the felt recoil.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2005, 07:08:01 PM »

Quote

you can kill a lot of deer with a .243! i've seen it done by nuisance-hunting landowners i load for -- using a .223 with 55 and 60 gr' hornady spire points! (at ranges under 200 yds for the bigger deer) i think you just need to use a similar principle with the .243 in your bullet selection.

OK SS...I'll bite on this one.. :wink: ...let me see if I got this right...you load 55 & 60 grain Hornady spire points for you landowner friends to shoot nuisance deer with correct...? I see neither of these bullets listed by Hornady...I do see 58 & 65 Grain V-Max bullets(moly and regular)...which are not intended to be used on whitetail deer...since they are a varmint bullet...While I agree with you on using a heavier bullet...I would opt for something more substantial like a X bullet or a Nosler partition just to ensure complete penetration...or even one of the bonded flavours like the new Fusion...the Accubond...or the GrandSlams...given what I've been told about core separations...and skimpy blood trails...

Mac

JKump · « **Reply #18 on:** November 08, 2005, 02:02:32 AM »

For info. I was using Winchester 95 grain Ballistic silver tips on the 1st deer and the 2nd and 3rd deer I used 100 grain Hornady light mags BTSP. All shot placement was just behind the shoulder. I am just looking to anchor the deer better. Also the areas I hunt are know for Hogs and I will take one if they present a target. With the 308, I have Winchester 150 grain Ballistic Silver tips and the new 150 grain Fusion ammo.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #19 on:** November 08, 2005, 01:58:49 PM »

Mac'

my latest hornady catalog is their 2004 edition. (see pages 10 and 30)

55 gr' spire point = part # 2265 , which they advertise as a varmint bullet...but was written up several years ago as a deer slayer in Handloader's Digest in an article titled "Out of Bounds Rounds". Can't remember the edition number. I found it in the library in greater cleveland and spoke to a couple landowners about it. so far they seem to like it, and the one below.

60 gr' spire point = part # 2270, which hornady loads in their .22-250. this has been labelled a varmint bullet, but has also been advertised as a deer bullet in that cartridge (.22-250).

No, you don't see these two written up very often for their deer-slaying abilities......but that Handloader's Digest (which was in hardcover at that time) started me loading them for my friends in Ohio hunting g'hogs and my friends in W. Va. hunting 'whatever'.

ss'