Author Topic: Another possibility to the .410/.45C deer killer scenario (Read 455 times)

Couger · « **on:** November 28, 2005, 02:08:56 AM »

Still trying to beat this dead horse!

After looking at the possibility of making the .410 into a sort of "express" round using .40 caliber or similar rifle bullets (and all-brass hulls - provided they were long enough, which they are not), another solution was right under my nose!

Is anyone familiar with MCA Sports / Ace Bullets?

www.mcace.com

This Alaskan company makes barrel inserts and chamber adapters for shooting undersize cartridges in host guns.

And instead of focusing on the .410/45C barrel (already a huge compromise for what i really want), I had gorgotten about this company.

What I remembered is that I can take a 12gauge Survivor (smoothbore) and add a .45/70 barrel insert to the outfit - to shoot big game to 100 yards as well as provide some protect when in bear (grizzly?) country.

Data exists to reload 12 gauge shells to 2 1/2 inches, 2 1/4 inches and even 2 inches - reminescent of the Aguila mini-shotshells. And with 7/8 ounce loads at 1800-1200fps, the 12 gauge "Survivor" could indeed become a real life saving tool - combined with a .45/70 barrel and a dozen rifle rounds combined with a dozen shotshells.

I need to email Ace Dube at MCA Sports to see what the recommended chamber pressure limt is for his barrel inserts.

Comments?

Has anyone ever used any of these MCA Sports products?

jl7030 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 28, 2005, 02:25:59 AM »

i have a 45colt/410 and i have a question if you can answer it. you are speaking of shooting alternate ammo in a 410. what kind of pressures will the survivor handle. i have put a 454 casull bullet in the chamber and it will fit perfectly, even close. the 45 colt bullet puts out about 25000 psi of pressure and the 454 casull puts out about 50000 psi of pressure. will the survivor handle 50000 psi? of so, the bullet will work and be much more powerful than the 45 colt. i've been told not to try it from some and it will work from others.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** November 28, 2005, 02:29:08 AM »

Mac and I discussed using the liners at one time, don't remember if it was online or by phone, but there was some reason it wouldn't work, I even packaged up a 20ga barrel for him to work with, but he changed his mind about it....maybe he'll elaborate on it later. The search function isn't working right now, or I'd look for posts, I know www.mcace.com has been brought up before.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** November 28, 2005, 02:52:31 AM »

Quote from: jl7030

.. what kind of pressures will the survivor handle. ..will the survivor handle 50000 psi? ... i've been told not to try it from some and it will work from others.

Give H&R a call and ask em what barrels can be fitted to the SB1 Survivor. Ask MtJerry what happens when you use a high pressure barrel on a Survivor frame!! I haven't seen anyone here say it was ok, if anyone thinks it's ok and is recommending it, let them do it, but it certainly is not a wise choice. The SB1 frame isn't heat treated like the SB2, won't stand the pressures.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=66901&highlight=270

mitchell · « **Reply #4 on:** November 28, 2005, 04:15:35 AM »

well tim what if i had one of a SB2 action???

i'm really thinking about trying the all brass shell and slug next year. but i want to know if it has been done or if its safe.

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** November 28, 2005, 05:43:56 AM »

Quote

but i want to know if it has been done or if its safe.

Load up five sort of proof loads say 65Kpsi. Tie the rifle to a rubber tire and fire it with a 20 ft string from behind your truck. After the five loads, if the gun is still working well you can take it hunting, I think it would be safe to use with moderate loads.

:-D

Cookiemann · « **Reply #6 on:** November 28, 2005, 06:08:46 AM »

Maybe I am just not adventurous enough! Seems to me that your 12ga Survivor should be all that is needed for SURVIVAL. At 100yd ranges, wouldn't a Dixie Terminator do the trick. As far as Grizzlies are concerned, Are ya really gonna have time to put that 45/70 barrel insert in before you become dinner?
Sorry if that sounds like I'm bein' an ass! Hope I didn't ruffle too many feathers.
A lot of the fun with these sweet little guns is in the building and experimenting with all the ideas you can dream up.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 28, 2005, 06:34:08 AM »

Quote from: mitchell

well tim what if i had one of a SB2 action???

i'm really thinking about trying the all brass shell and slug next year. but i want to know if it has been done or if its safe.

Using the SB2 frame would be very prudent. :wink:

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=76974&highlight=454+casull

Couger · « **Reply #8 on:** November 28, 2005, 09:08:59 AM »

No ruffled feathers!

If I was in grizzly country, the .45/70 insert would already be in the 12 gauge barrel, with a loaded round in that chamber.

I'd also have my Ruger Security Six .357 stoked with 180 grain Castcore loads. The idea of having a .45/70 or 12 gauge with .72 caliber slugs appeals to me more for a first shot (if really necessary), than relying totally on a still-fairly small wheel gun.

The .45/70 also extends game killing ranges. In a survival/foraging (collecting camp meat), I'd also have no qualms about slucing birds on the ground or sitting in a tree, either. That's why the 7/8 ounce loads would likely be "adequate."

As for the .410/.45C, if anyone EVER comes out with a 3" all-brass hull, that will open new possibilities. Not that I'm enamored with the .410.

Would rather have a 28 gauge!