Why do so many people dislike Marlin's "new" safet

[BradCoPAHunter]

I've never owned a Marlin, but I'd like to get a 336.  I've read a lot of people's posts on this model, and virtually everybody complains about the new lawyered-up safety.  I think I read that these changes were made around 1984.  Anyway, what are the advantages of the older models' safeties?  Just wondering if it's worth my effort to look for an older gun.

[hogship]

It's more a matter of tradition than anything else....and Marlin firearms have a lot of tradition and heritage.

The cross bolt safety is in response to ADs caused by the hammer slipping off the thumb when lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. Some idiots can't be trusted to do it by resting the hammer spur into the first joint of the thumb while releasing the trigger at the first movement of the hammer. Those of us who do it right will never have an AD because of it. It really irks some people to have to conform to the least common idiot because there's never been a problem before.

For some, using the crossbolt safety has resulted in a "click" at the worst possible time. It's just one more thing to think about, even though it's unneeded for most of us who have learned how to correctly use the half cock safety.

hog

[BradCoPAHunter]

Hmm.  My local gun shop has an old J.C. Higgins version of the 336.  I'll have to compare it to one of the new Marlins on their rack.

[big medicine]

I have never understood the big deal made over the safety. I never use it in the field. I use the hammer on 1/2 cock. I do use the safety when unloading. I have a new mod 94 Win with the tang safety and use it the same way. I think people just hate the idea that some idiot misused it and now everyone has to have the safety. One could use the same logic with bolt guns. You can carry it with the bolt not locked down, so why do you need a safety?

[NYH1]

I like having the cross bolt safeties on my Marlin's. I use them the same way big medicine does. I couldn't imagine carrying a gun without a safety..........oh wait I carry my two Glock's all the time!!! If they didn't have them it really wouldn't be a big deal. Since they do I use them. Just me! :grin:  :wink:  

[dla]

Some years ago Marlin and Winchester took a look at the hunting accident statistics. They discovered that the levergun is given to kids as their first deer rifle. And it is kids that have the bulk of the "hammer-slipping" accidents.

So the manufacturers added the cross-bolt safety.

This makes perfect sense. Anyone who has been around 1911 pistols should know that the most common ND is when someone is trying to lower the hammer on a loaded chamber.

The same problem with coach shotguns.

At some point you begin to realize that it is inherently dangerous to be messing with a spring-loaded detonator. The levergun with a CBS and a 1911 pistol are safest when you don't mess with the hammer. So either carry them cocked & locked, or chamber empty. No in between.

However, there are a lot of old fools who can't accept change. So they bad-mouth CBS and spend money disabling them.

People who hear a "click", when they expected a "BOOM" should be ashamed of themselves for not practicing with their weapon in the manner they will use it in the field.

[marlinman93]

I think dla may have hit on the real reason we don't like them. Gun owners hate change, unless it's something THEY requested! Seems we're a bunch of old stuck in our ways guys, and if we all beg for something new, and don't get it; we complain. Likewise, if we get something we never thought we'd need; we complain. :wink:

[ironglow]

mostly, I just ignore it...other than the occasional check to see that it is still off...

[palgeno]

Geez---I don't mind the safety--the little red ring shows when the safety is on and you can feel the thing sticking out with your finger as well. Got my first Marlin---a 39A in 1957 from my grandfather as a 12th birthday present and my second in 1965---a 336 CS in 35 rem as a present to myself.  These have no crossbolt safety. The next two, a 336 30-30 in 1995 and the last, a 45-70 Guide Gun in 1998----these have the crossbolt safety. Pushing the safety to off position is not loud or difficult. In my opinion, I'd rather have the safety. Who knows when you could screw up with frozen fingers or when you might have some arthritis and the digits don't want to cooperate like when you were young---ask me how I know! pg

[dawei]

I've never owned a Marlin, but I'd like to get a 336.  I've read a lot of people's posts on this model, and virtually everybody complains about the new lawyered-up safety.  I think I read that these changes were made around 1984.  Anyway, what are the advantages of the older models' safeties?  Just wondering if it's worth my effort to look for an older gun.

As a southpaw shooter the CBS is a PITA. My 30/30 (circa 1976) doesn't have it; 444SS (circa 1988) does. I deactivated mine. When unloading I point the gun towards the ground! IMNSHO the CBS is an abomination for a lefty; a lawyer's solution to a non-existant problem. YMMV.

[Dee]

The cross bolt safety was put on there to protect Marlin (Hopefully) when sued by trial lawyers (sometimes referred to as pond scum, maggots ect. ). It was an attempt to get along with the politicly correct i.e. the gun control crowd. I did not feel embarrassed the first time I pulled the trigger and my 1895CB 45-70 said "click" instead of "GO". I felt annoyed. It wasn't lack of experience or pratice. The safety located where it is, is prone to be bumped on or off.  Solution is an allen wrench which when applied to the right with the safety in the off position renders it (the safety) a non event in future forays into the wilds. As far as exposed hammer single actions whether they are rifle or 1911 pistols (which I have customized many dozens of 1911s in a 20 year law-enforcement career). You had better point them down when letting the hammer down. Even you experts can have an accidental discharge.

[hogship]

The cross bolt safety was put on there to protect Marlin (Hopefully) when sued by trial lawyers (sometimes referred to as pond scum, maggots ect. ). It was an attempt to get along with the politicly correct i.e. the gun control crowd. I did not feel embarrassed the first time I pulled the trigger and my 1895CB 45-70 said "click" instead of "GO". I felt annoyed. It wasn't lack of experience or pratice. The safety located where it is, is prone to be bumped on or off.  Solution is an allen wrench which when applied to the right with the safety in the off position renders it (the safety) a non event in future forays into the wilds. As far as exposed hammer single actions whether they are rifle or 1911 pistols (which I have customized many dozens of 1911s in a 20 year law-enforcement career). You had better point them down when letting the hammer down. Even you experts can have an accidental discharge.

I'm far from being an expert when it comes to 1911s, I'm not, but I don't understand the need to ever lower the hammer on a 1911 with a loaded chamber. It would seem to me that the only reasonable options would be cocked and locked, or remove the live round by jacking the slide.

Can you elaborate on the circumstances where you'd want to lower the hammer on a 1911 pistol with a loaded chamber?

thanks

On the other account......it would be foolish to ever lower the hammer on a lever rifle and not consider where the rifle is pointing. I guess fools are born every day and ADs causing injuries and death are the result of the actions of those fools.......I guess this is why the "need" for a CBS. Fools need them, but the rest of us don't! The half cock safety, if used properly, works well.

hog

[Flinch]

Another quick fix for this is to put a small rubber o-ring around the safety button. This way I can still use it if I want, but I know it wont accidently be bumped on.

[mr.frosty]

dislike safeties or not, there on the gun for a reason, if you aint safe with
yours i aint huntin with ya the little cross bolt safety kept me from
having an accident when i fell down a steep grade in the mountains
so i aint changing a thing. when i stand hunt or am moving the hammer is on half cock with the bolt on safe, but thats me.

[Keith L]

I agree with Mr. Frosty.  Even if it is not a high degree of improved safety with an experienced user, it will save someone's bacon if they are not as experienced.  I use mine regularly and wouldn't think of disabling it.

[hogship]

Let's get one thing straight, here.......

The CBS was introduced by Marlin, NOT because it had any magical power to enhance the safety of a rifle that already had a safety. The CBS is there solely for the purpose of making a courtroom defense easier for Marlin.....should the need arise.

If it had the power to idiot proof a lever gun, then there's no reason why all revolvers shouldn't have cross bolt safeties as well. After all, the revolver operator is responsible for lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber as well.....right? See how stupid that sounds?

Would it end there? Nope. How about all replica flintlock and cap'n'ball firearms.....shouldn't they have cross bolt safeties, too?

Come on, let's get real here. The half cock is a good safety device. It's been around since before the Revolutionary War. There has always been those who didn't watch where the muzzle of their firearm was pointed, and didn't use the crook of their thumb to snag the hammer spur before decocking....now that we've got CBSs, that changes nothing. The idiots and mishandlers are still with us.

The cross bolt safety IS and will ALWAYS be a lawyer inspired invention for the protection of the manufacturer.....nothing else. The safety of the gunowner is secondary to the real purpose, but, of course, that'll never be how it's represented.

For those who rely on the half cock, and do it right.....nothing changes there either. They will NEVER have an AD.

hog

[Keith L]

It doesn't make it any less safe.

[Coyote Hunter]

I tend to carry at half-cock on an empty chamber, o I don't really feel much need for the safety.   Sure comes in handy when unloading, though.

"Without" looks better.  "With" cost me the biggest buck I have ever dropped an hammer on because my buddy insisted I use the safety even though I showed him an empty chamber.

For the record I have two Marlins with the safety and one Marlin and a Browning B92 without.

[hogship]

It doesn't make it any less safe.

For those who use the half cock correctly,  the CBS doesn't make it any more safe either.

hog

[hogship]

Sure comes in handy when unloading, though.
.

Let me ask you a question, Coyote Hunter.....

Do you have your finger on the trigger when unloading?

If not, the CBS adds nothing to the safety of a lever rifle for the purposes of unloading the rifle.

hog

[Dee]

His Hogship has answered any further response I might have had concerning the cross bolt safety on a Marlin rifle. In response to the question of why anyone would lower the hammer on a 1911. Answer: For the same reason you would lower the hammer on a Marlin rifle. Many of the newer versions of the 1911 such as Kimber, the EnHanced Series 80 Colts, Smith and Wesson have drop safeties. THIS MEANS THAT YOU CAN CARRY THE PISTOL WITH A LOADED CHAMBER AND THE HAMMER "DOWN" SAFELY WHICH IS WHY IT WAS PUT IN THERE AND IN THE CASE OF BEING DROPPED ON THE MUZZLE.  In jails they are called "JAIL HOUSE LAWYERS" in trucks they are called "TRUCK STOP LAWYERS" and in sports they are called "ARM CHAIR QUARTERBACKS and in Romans Chapter 1 verse 22 God says; Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. In reality there are far more YOUNG fools than old ones.  The End,

[K.K.]

Generations of men have hunted with the Marlin lever gun without a crossbolt safety.  These guns are completely safe, if one practices what every firearm owner should....Always point the muzzle in a safe direction!  That way, even if the thumb does slip (though it never should), than no one gets hurt. Period.

I know it sounds preachy, but we can never be too careful, and I hate what litigators have done to the firearms industry and the guns that they manufacture.

[Snowman366]

Is there any reason to have the CBS blocked so that it doesn't function anymore? I've heard third and fourth-hand "stories" that someone's CBS managed to inadvertently slip into the "ON" position when the rifle was being un-cased, or some such, and caused a problem. I know of two guys whom I respect who've had their CBS's deliberately disabled by a gunsmith.  

I carry my M336 as a car gun for LE work in a fairly urbanized patrol area. I keep a round chambered and the gun on half-cock notch and have done so for years with no problems. I've tried setting the CBS into the "ON" position for the last few months, though, but then catch myself forgetting to push it off when I un-case the gun in a hurry. I'm just not used to jumping through that extra "hoop" to get ready to fire, I guess.

[hogship]

Is there any reason to have the CBS blocked so that it doesn't function anymore? I've heard third and fourth-hand "stories" that someone's CBS managed to inadvertently slip into the "ON" position when the rifle was being un-cased, or some such, and caused a problem. I know of two guys whom I respect who've had their CBS's deliberately disabled by a gunsmith.  

I carry my M336 as a car gun for LE work in a fairly urbanized patrol area. I keep a round chambered and the gun on half-cock notch and have done so for years with no problems. I've tried setting the CBS into the "ON" position for the last few months, though, but then catch myself forgetting to push it off when I un-case the gun in a hurry. I'm just not used to jumping through that extra "hoop" to get ready to fire, I guess.

Snowman336....

Your example is exactly why some of us block the CBS. As long as it's blocked, there are no mistakes. In your case, one mistake could cost you your life! I wouldn't bet my life on trying to remember.....I'd need to know without guesswork.

hog

[Dee]

Getting a gunsmith to disable the cross-bolt safety on a Marlin leveraction is like hiring a mechanic to put gas in your car. Get the proper size allen wrench and stick it in the hole to the left of the hammer. Push the safety into the off position and tighten. All this is accomplished with the butt stock removed. That takes a screw-driver. I understand what the officer is complaining about. I carried a 1957 Model 94 Winchester for about 10 years in a patrol unit before switching to an M4A2 for the last 10 of my career. Besides the safety protrudes so far out on the flat receiver it is prone to being knocked (unknowingly) on or off.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I know I'm late to this party but....

I've replaced my CBS on my 1895, as I've dropped the hammer on plastic when aiming at a nice deer.  And I didn't use the CBS prior to that "mistake/accident" either.  My gun now functions in the "orginal" way it was designed to, and looks much prettier than from factory.

And, I must agree with the sentiments about having CBS on a revolver, as the operator is going to be causing problems with a AD, not the lack of a safety feature.

[Keith L]

I have both a Marlin with CBS and now have some time with a Winchester 94AE with the rebounding hammer and tang safety.  Give me the CBS every time.  The trigger on the 94 has at least a quarter inch of free play before getting to work, and there doesn't seem to be any half cock at all, just where the hammer lands when it rebounds.  And I don't feel any safer with that than without it.

[rickt300]

I feel the CBS is a safety issue when one considers how easy it is to change it's position. Thinkabout it, safety on at full cock gets inadvertantly bumped into the off position. And this is easy to do. The marlin also has the lever safety pin along with the half cock. This is a safe weapon. I recently had a possibly dangerouse situation when Itried to shoot a huge feral hog at less than 30 feet and the gun failed to fire due to the safety being bumped on. Iam glad the hog ran at the loudclack the hammer made. The real issue is how easy it is to change the safety's position without noticing it has happened.

[DennisE]

I've had a total of 2 39As, 3 1894s and 1 1895 all with CBSs.  Never had a problem with the CBS, think they're great, love Marlin lever actions.  Many gun folks have difficulty dealing with change!  LOL!  Dennis

[Echo4Lima]

Dee has the right idea. It works well, I did the same to my GG after dropping the hammer on the blok and not getting any results on a nice big coyote