T/C Carbin/Pistol stocks?

[J-Bird]

I'm 15 yrs old and I will be 16 in February and I would like to get a Contender Carbine in 22 LR for squirrels.  Now, my question is: If I buy a Contender set up in the carbine format later can I buy pistol grips to put on it?
I read somewhere that carbine frames aren't compatible with pistol grips.  

P.S. If I purchase a Contender it will be a G2.





 Thanks in advance!!.

J-Bird

[poncaguy]

All the G2 frames are the same....................

[springer222]

Legally, no. If the frame leaves the factory as a rifle, then its only configuration is a rifle; cannot be converted to pistol (actually it can with the proper paperwork and payment to the ATF, but not monetarily feasible). On the other hand, if a frame leaves the factory a pistol, it can be converted to a rifle as long as the attached barrel is of the correct length (>16" for a rifled barrel and >18" for a smoothbore barrel). It can then be legally converted back to a pistol if so desired. Now the other problem you are going to run into, you must be 18 to purchase a rifle and 21 to purchase a pistol.

[PaulS]

I was under the impression that all Thompson frames were registered as pistol frames from the factory - even if they are sold with rifle barrels. Am I wrong in this? I may have to send off an email to the factory to find out.

[springer222]

I have not heard that, but it may be the case. If that is factual, then it is very good news. What I have stated is the way the ATF views pistol vs rifle configurations. And according to them, a rifle cannot be converted to a pistol.

[DLH]

A few years ago the BATF and Tompson Center arms went to the Supreme Court, on this issue;  the court ruled that the conversion of the Contender from rifle to pistol was ok. One of the judges wrote "that with all the guns availble Who would want to use a single shot weapon to rob a bank!!!"
   I contacted the BATF and after quite a bit of runaround, was told that yes it was ok to interchange. BUT!!!  the barrel length on the rifle STILL had to be 16". as a side note I have been told that in order to have a carbine stock you must have a barrel of atleast 16".

   If still in doubt check with the NRA, it was in their mag that the artical was written.

[Keith L]

I would have to see that ruling.  The only one I know of is the opposite: you can turn a pistol into a rifle.  If there was a ruling on the other conversion I would like to see it.

[J-Bird]

Thanks for the wealth of information folks.

[springer222]

Link to a 54 page PDF file that contains the Gun Control Act of '68. You can read thru and make your own interpretation.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/guncoact.pdf

[armory414]

GEEZ. . .here we go again.  How many times do we have to have this same conversation.  No, you don't make your own interpretation.  The Supreme Court and BATF does.

[springer222]

armory414-
You are correct. I should have said you can read the material and choose to either follow the ATF's interpretations or, the way I read the information, break the law.

[spinafish]

I can't think of any reason a game warden or law officer in the normal happenings of day to day work really gives a rip whether your Contender (0r Encore, for that matter)was purchased as a pistol or a carbine or a rifle!  If one decides to shoot his neighbor or to relieve a bank of its cash, then his firearm might be held to the light a little closer..but in all my years of hunting and being checked at the WMAs,have I ever had an officer ask me if my gun started off as a pistol or rifle...most of the time the Contender is just a novelty to these guys..who are most used to seeing bolt, lever and auto loading deer rifles.  Now if the some guys in black three piece suits knock on your door and say they are from the federal government and they are there to help you, you need to run anyway!

[PaulS]

You can find the courts decision here:
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html

A short synopsis is that Thompson/Center is not producing a short barreled rifle when it ships a frame, with two kits - one for rifle and one for pistol just because it is possible to assemble the short barrel with the rifle stock.
If the end user chosses to do that it is an illegal firearm and they are subject to prosecution. The court decided that the making of the illegal arm was in the actual assembly of the parts and did not exist just because the parts to do this were available.
The court was also careful to say that this  line of thinking did not aply to machine guns and the parts to make a semi-auto into a fully auto because there was no other posible use for those parts.

Your Contender and Encore are fine in either configuation as long as the barrel used with the rifle stock is at least 16 inches and the overall length of the rifle is 23? inches.

[Keith L]

On June 8, 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Contender pistol and carbine kit are not a short-barreled rifle under the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. §5845(a)(3). This means that a consumer may possess the pistol with its 10" barrel and may use the kit parts to make a rifle with the 21" barrel, as long as the shoulder stock is not assembled onto the receiver at the same time as the 10" barrel.

Clearly covers pistol to rifle as long as appropriate barrels are used.  No mention of rifle to pistol.  Not being a lawyer I will not place myself in jeopardy, no matter how slight anyone else thinks the risk is, without a court ruling specifically allowing rifle to pistol.  This is my opinion, and obviously not binding on anyone else.

[dakotashooter2]

Just to add some more confusion I believe there are a few STATES that are more specific on the prohibition of rifle to pistol conversion.  In addition if you buy a frame (or whole gun) that has passed through private party sales how is one to know whether it started life as a rifle or pistol frame? The BATF probably should have a separate classification for TC frames but that would make too much sense.

[DLH]

The findings of this case by Cornell can be found, do a search for "United States V. Thompson/Center Arms Co.

I just read it but can't figure out how to send the link?

[PaulS]

DHL,

here is the link to your case:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=504&invol=505

It agrees with the link I posted earlier that the Thompson Contender is neither a rifle or a pistol until it is assembled by the end user.

PaulS

[hogwild_444]

J-Bird; legalities aside; get the match 22 barrel, adjust the trigger to suit you, practice with it. I have used this set-up for squirrel hunting and you will love it. I use Aguila 22 SSS 60 grainers with extreme accuracy for loads of kills. Nice lightweight gun you can carry all day. My 2 sons (21 and 14 y.o) love it too. It has taken squirrels at 100yds with shooting sticks for a steady shot. If there is a better squirrel gun I haven't found it or need it.

[Hunter Mann]

I totally agree with Hogwild. If there is a question as to legal or illegal, I would always slide toward the legal side. No sense putting yourself in a position of being a fugitive...no one here is a lawyer (your lawyer) as previously mentioned, and this would surely end up in court. That can get expensive, to say the least. I don't feel like ending up on a BATF watch list.

And as many have pointed out here, once in the TC game, you will no dobut want a cabine and a pistol when you get older, as there are places you may want to go where hunting with a pistol just isn't allowed....like Canada for big whitetails.

I fully intend to get another pistol and set it up as a carbine...probably buy my brother-in-laws .270 carbine when he sells it, as I plan to do the Canada thing myself in the future when finances allow it.

But I have a question....if I buy a pistol and convert it to a carbine, can my underaged child (under 21 yrs of age) hunt with it....realizing that it is registered as a pistol?

[spinafish]

as long as the barrel is at or over 16" the officer will be looking at a rifle when the stock is attached..not a pistol, nor will most care how it started off life..