Author Topic: How many guns is too many?  (Read 638 times)

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Offline FWiedner

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How many guns is too many?
« on: November 22, 2005, 06:34:14 AM »
How many guns is too many?

By Caitlyn Kelleher

Chris Tietgens owned 15 different guns by the time he was 15.

Now, at age 66, he has a room full of firearms as part of his personal collection.

The Leominster resident has firearms that date back to the early-1800s, firearms German soldiers used in World War II, original Winchester rifles and a pocket-pistol made in Fitchburg in the early-1900s.

Tietgens collects firearms, hunts and competes in target competitions.

"They represent a whole line of interests," he said. "It's not just a one-thing reason."

Tietgens does not understand why anyone would wonder why he owns so many guns.

"It's the view of the person that knows less and less about firearms," he said.

The ability of people to sit around and casually discuss firearms has disappeared during the last few years, said Tietgens.

His comments come two weeks after Templeton Police arrested Scott Tardiff, 37 , after he turned over 16 firearms, ammunition, and an expired license to police when they served him with a restraining order.

Tardiff was charged with firearm possession without an firearm identification card, possession of a large capacity firearm, improper storage of a firearm, and improper storage of a large capacity firearm.

Tardiff, a former Leominster resident, was arrested within yards of Baldwinville Elementary School.

This concerned many parents, who said they were upset by the fact that the guns were not locked away.

While not talking about this case, area hunters and gun collectors said it is not unusual for a person to have more than one gun.

Different guns are needed to hunt different types of animals, shoot different targets and collected.

Hiding their guns away

"I think the stigma is somewhat caused by the laws," said Jim Wallace, the executive director of the Gun Owners Action League in Northboro. "By law we have to hide our guns away."

State laws require all firearms to be "secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or lawfully authorized used."

Wallace said he thinks many people have a false sense of security and believe it is someone else's job to "protect me and feed me."

And while state gun laws regulate the sale, the possession, the carrying and the types of guns a person can own, they don't regulate the number of weapons someone can own.

Gun owners, including Tietgens, say many of these law are confusing, poorly designed and cause more harm to legal gun owners than criminals.

"Laws don't always make sense, they don't cover all the what ifs," Tietgens said.

A person needs to have a firearms identification card in order to possess a license in the state.

The cards can be obtained through the local police department. Applications are available in local police departments and a person must submit proof they have completed a safety course.

Police can refuse to issue the cards if someone has been convicted a felony or a misdemeanor that carries a sentence of two years or more or have been confined for mental illness, drug addiction or habitual drunkenness.

Still, many law-abiding gunowners say criminals will find ways to get guns.

"There is no way you are going to stop the average crook from getting their hands (on guns)," Wallace said. "If you are not going to stop the illegal drugs and the gangs, you aren't going to stop the illegal gun use."

Philip A. Madonia, III, the president of the Fitchburg Sportsmen Club, is a hunter.

He said he owns more than one gun but would not specify how many.

The 50-year-old Fitchburg resident said it is important to teach people to respect firearms, both to control their use, but also to remove the stigma attached to owning guns.

"I think it is a misperception of how guns are used by sportsmen and why they are used," he said. "I got introduced to it as a Boy Scout on issues of safe handling and use."

Richard Freel of Clinton agrees older generations did a better job of teaching their children to respect firearms.

"I think that used be something handled by parents years ago," he said.

The Clinton man said he owns about 10 firearms, including shotguns, rifles and pistols, which he uses in competitions.

"I shoot holes in paper," he said describing his interest in guns. "The goal is shooting a perfect target."

The different weapons allow him to perfect his shooting, depending on a variety of factors.

"I am protecting your second amendment to keep and bear arms," Freel said. "I think our forefathers, who wrote our constitution, were wise."

http://www.sentinelandenterprise.com/local/ci_3238671

*FW Note:

How far have we as Americans fallen, that we must ask permission to exercise our RIGHTS, and that the exercise of those rights instills fear in our neighbors?

How thin that "red blood" is becoming...

Americans..., afraid of freedom.

 :cry:
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline Jack Crevalle

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Re: How many guns is too many?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2005, 07:38:28 AM »
Quote from: FWiedner
How many guns is too many?



One more than I have.

At any given time.

Offline unspellable

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How many?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2005, 08:27:56 AM »
"One more than I have."

This won't fly, it doesn't allow you to get the next one.  The proper answer is, "Two more than I have."

Actually, you don't have too many guns untill you start planning a 31-30 wildcat to fill the performance gap between your 30-30 and your 32 Special.

Offline dawei

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Re: How many guns is too many?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2005, 12:46:27 PM »
Quote from: FWiedner
How many guns is too many?


There is no such number.

Offline Jack Crevalle

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Re: How many?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2005, 05:02:21 AM »
Quote from: unspellable
"One more than I have."

This won't fly, it doesn't allow you to get the next one.  The proper answer is, "Two more than I have."

Actually, you don't have too many guns untill you start planning a 31-30 wildcat to fill the performance gap between your 30-30 and your 32 Special.


No, because I won't have too many until I get the next one and the instant I do the number increments to one more than I have.

Offline Greysky

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How many guns is too many?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2005, 02:36:36 AM »
To enthusiastic gun grabbers, one single shot firearm along with one round of live ammunition constitutes an arsenal.  :x

Guns and ammo are the same as money; you can never have enough.  :grin:
If at first you don't succeed, by all means try again. But if this doesn't work, give up, because there is no sense in making a darn fool of yourself.

Offline FWiedner

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How many guns is too many?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2005, 06:33:31 AM »
I thought I'd post this as an addendum to the subject article, to tickle the discussion...:

54 guns, ammo seized from Ludwig home

Cache of weapons found in Lititz family's house includes three assault rifles, shotguns and handguns.

By Janet Kelley

LANCASTER COUNTY, PA - David G. Ludwig obviously had access to guns.

Police have charged the 18-year-old with shooting and killing his girlfriend’s parents on Sunday.

But investigators didn’t know just how many guns the young man had available to him until they searched his family’s Warwick Township home.

More than 50 weapons — including three assault rifles, plus numerous shotguns, handguns, rifles, scopes and bullets — were confiscated from the Ludwig home on Sunday, according to court documents.

The weapons were confiscated along with the young man’s computer, when detectives searched the Ludwig home at 422-A W. Orange St., Lititz.

Searching the suspect’s home was one of the first things police did after responding to the call to another Warwick Township residence on Sunday morning.

Inside that home, at 15 Royal Drive, Lititz, police found the bodies of Michael and Cathryn Borden, both 50. Both had been shot once in the head, police said.

But Ludwig and his girlfriend, the Borden’s 14-year-old daughter, Kara Beth, were nowhere to be found.

Police said the Bordens disapproved of their younger daughter dating Ludwig and had called him to their home around 7 a.m. Sunday to discuss the situation, after learning she had been out all night with him.

Neighbors said when Ludwig arrived, Michael Borden told him to leave a red duffel bag he was carrying outside.

The bag, neighbors said, contained several handguns and a knife.

Ludwig complied with the request, apparently, but allegedly had hidden another handgun inside his clothing.

(Blogger's comments)........................
On Monday afternoon, the car was stopped in Indiana. State troopers placed the young man under arrest and both he and Borden were flown back to Lancaster County on Tuesday.

Ludwig was placed in prison, she was turned over to family and friends.

Ludwig lived with his parents, who police said have been extremely cooperative with the investigation.

Police said nothing about the large cache of weapons, which numbered 54, that they confiscated from the Ludwig’s home.

Among the list of guns listed in the court document were three AR-15 rifles, commonly known as assault rifles, which are the civilian version of the U.S. military-issued weapons.

Several of the rifles and shotguns, some pump-action, had scope attachments and were in cases.

Police, who also confiscated numerous rounds of ammunition, did not say where in the home the guns were found.

Many of the weapons were handguns, according to the list, including several .22 caliber and .38 caliber Smith & Wesson handguns, several 9 mm Ruger pistols, a Taurus .357 caliber and a Glock .45 caliber handgun.

Friends have said that Ludwig and his family hunted. While police were searching for the missing teens, investigators mentioned that the family had suggested they look at their hunting cabin in Juniata County.

Ludwig’s parents, Gregory and Jane, issued a statement Wednesday, asking for prayers and apologizing for the incident.

“We are so truly sorry any of this has occurred, and are grateful for the great care being given to the Borden family,’’ the Ludwigs’ statement read.

“This town has suffered great tragedy,’’ the Ludwigs continued, asking the public to pray for “all who have been stunned by these events.’’

Ludwig’s father, friends said, is a pilot for a commercial airline and his mother home-schools her children, including the defendant.

Even Nancy Grace is horrified by this.

Now, I'm not an anti-gun person, but this family had more weapons than a Blackwater mercenary team. Who, outside a gun dealer, needs 54 weapons in their home. Were the North Koreans going to overrun their farm?

We are talking a collection reaching $100K in value, alone.

Look, if I lived in a farming area, I'd own a couple of weapons. But 54? For what? To arm my militia unit? Thousands of rounds of ammo.

Now, if this was a non-white family, we'd be talking about their armed compound and the whole family would be in custody until every one of those weapons were checked for ownership.

This kid thought he could cart off some of the family's weapons, blow someone away and get away with it. I mean, he came loaded to play El Mariachi or something.

I wonder what values he was taught by mom at her home school. Kill or be killed?

Something went very wrong here. This kid's values, combined with the self-imposed isolation, created a moral world where violence to obtain one's goals was acceptable.

54 guns is a lot of guns and he allegedly killed those people execution style.

---------------------

*FW Comment:

Occurrances like this are tragic.  A hot-headed and impulsive young man, a pretty young girl, and parents trying to draw the line.  But as sad as it is, I personally don't follow the argument that people shouldn't be allowed to have sizable collections of whatever they like.

Should families be limited to one set of silverware because once upon a time someone used a steak knife to harm someone else?

Should people not directly involved be punished for the crime?  That's the case here.  The entire family collection was confiscated because the boy harmed someone.  The police already had the murder weapon in their hands and they still robbed this family of their property.  Further, they make an overt attempt to demonize the household, to associate the entire family and to place the fault on their lifestyle.  Are they all guilty because he did it?

Being personally offended by rude speech, not having the government snoop in your personal business,  a lack of guaranteed safety, these are equally benefits and cautions of living in a free society.  When you wake up in the morning and step out of your front door, you are opting to take the chance.

How many guns is too many?

IMO, it's not a question that deserves either an answer or the energy of speculation in a free society.  No honest body should have the authority to place such a limit on free men.

 :o
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline jgalar

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How many guns is too many?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2005, 03:30:19 PM »
To me the question of how many is to many depends on how often you get to shoot what you've got. I have over 40 myself and do not get to shoot them as often as I would like. Its been a few years since some have been fired. So I probably have too many, but then again I am expecting another to arrive in a few days.

Offline unspellable

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How many?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2005, 06:34:58 AM »
One may have a collection of firearms numbering in the hundreds.  But if some one in the household decides to embark upon a course of mayhem, they cannot as a practical matter carry more than three or four, or actually employ more than one or two at a time.  Any restriction imposed on the total number is the same old business of imposing limits on the law abiding while refusing to adress the problem employed as a pretence for the "solution".  Same old bottom line, gun control is not about guns.

Offline stuffit

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Confiscation
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2005, 08:12:36 AM »
On what basis did the authorities confiscate the entire family gun collection?   Doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface of it.  I'm guessing this is in Massachusetts?  

s.
Everybody changes their minds sometimes but a fool and a mule.

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