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Offline Sourdough

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Trapping Black Bears
« on: December 10, 2005, 11:05:26 AM »
Just thought some of you might be interested.  I have put in a proposal to the Alaska Game Board to reclassify Black Bears as furbearers.  This will allow them to be trapped, and the fur sold.  The reason for this is that we are not having enough Black Bears killed.  Their populations are rising, some villages have them running out their ears so to speak.  Bears are the main predator on baby moose and caribou in the spring.  Moose herds in several parts of the state are having a zero survival rate on calves.  Same thing for some caribou herds.  Bears are the main predator.  Currently, since the only thing one can do with bear pelts are to have them mounted, you cannot sell them, or any parts of a bear.  After a fellow has two or three bears hanging on the wall there is little incentive left to shoot bears.  By being reclassified the hides can be sold, so can the claws, and skulls.   This means some people will again go out and actively hunt bears.

We will see how they view my proposal in march, during their meeting in Fairbanks.
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Offline Dand

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I bet you'll spark a real debate
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2005, 09:57:34 AM »
I think you should expect a serious debate with this idea.  Remember those guys found snaring and poaching bears in Prince William?  They were selling gall bladders etc.   I suspect there are other poaching operations going on through the state.

While there are a lot of bears, allowing trapping and sale might make Alaska a loophole for poaching and sale of parts from Canada and other parts of the US.  Its my understanding that poaching has been pretty rough on bear populations in some of the southern states - but I'm not well informed on that issue.

Don't be surprised if people get very upset by your idea.  There are the concerns some will have about such large traps or snares and potential threats to nontarget game and humans.  And of course the predictable anti trapping folks.

But it could be an interesting discussion.  Have you discussed it with the ADFG biologists?
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Offline Sourdough

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2005, 11:41:45 AM »
Yes, I did discuss it with the biologist, and members of our Game Board Advisory Committe.  Their view is that since Viagra, Ciealis, and Lavetra are     killing the Black Market trade in Gall Bladders, it would be a good idea.

That would leave the hide, skull, and claws that could be sold.  And for a short time the Gall Bladder.  There is a legal market for gall bladders in some states, but the market in the orient is drying up, so demand is on the decline.

My only real concern, is the use of the old double spring bear traps.  You have to have a big C-clamp to set those things, or to open them once they are sprung.  The reason they were outlawed was that is a human got caught, there was no way they could be gotten out without the proper tools to open the trap.  Many people perished in those I have been told.  They are still outlawed for the use of trapping bears, but are selling like mad for novility items, to hang on the wall.  You know if a trapping season is opened some dummy is going to take one out and set it in hopes of catching a bear.  I am going to discuss this with the Game Board, when they meet in the spring.  They will have to specify the type of trap to be used, ie a culvert type trap, or a big snare.  I personally lean to the cilvert trap, that way releasing non-target animals is easy, and no harm done.
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Offline NONYA

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2005, 01:27:21 PM »
To reduce bear numbers in a controlled fashion it would be safer to offer a bounty for bears killed,payed for by an extra dollar or two added to moose tags,or any game animal predated apon by B Bears.If people can sell em they will poach em,its a proven thing,making it legal to sell parts will only bring in big poaching operations and in a few years people will beb saying what happened to all the bears.
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Offline Sourdough

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2005, 01:53:02 PM »
NONYA:  Since there is no closed season on Black Bears, and the limit is three a year now, I don't think poaching will be a problem.  The hides, claws, skulls, would be sold through the fur buyers that are currently opperating in the state.  Just like the hides of wolverines, lynxes, and wolves where there is no problem with poaching now.  And, with our small population all the trappers know everyone anyway that traps.  The only means of transportation to trapping areas is with the use of snowmachines, dog sleds, or airplanes.  Anyone that moves around in the bush with any one of those three is noticed. So poaching up here is not a easy as some people think.  Dall Sheep seem to be the big item that gets poached up here, mostly by out-of-staters, and they get caught regulerly.
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What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Daveinthebush

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Touchy
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2005, 06:38:30 PM »
I stayed away from this one for a bit to think about it.  I can only speak for Prince William Sound (6D and 13).  There are a lot of bears out there.  We took five bears off of the same bait stand and there were still more there that we knew of.  I think that part of the problem in reducing numbers is the lack of available terrain to hunt.  Whoa you say.  Yea.....

We have a 1 mile rule from dwellings and improved camp sites and a 1/4 mile rule from maintained trails.  If you follow the Richardson Hwy. north from Valdez you will see that it follows rivers that can not be crossed all the way up.  Throw in some houses in the flater areas, a few hiking trails and steep mountains, there is actually not a lot of places to get the required distances away.

Out on the sound you are limited by the shoreline along the ocean.  In many places you simply can not get to shore because of the rocks and poor anchorages.  Desireable anchorages have campsites or cabins.  So where can you hunt.  Add in last years restrictions on many bays and native lands then the available areas drop of considerably.

And now you want to add trapping on to this.  Humm.....

I just don't know.
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Offline Sourdough

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2005, 01:43:22 PM »
Dave:  Your area would not be condusive to trapping, the areas where it would be fesiable would be the interior.  Around McGrath, along the Chena, Salsha, Yukon, John, Goodpasture, 40mile, rivers.  Around the villages like Ruby, Galena, Manly, Chicken, Eagle, Central, those kind of areas.  And in the mountains like the Alaska Range, Brooks, Where you have access during the spring, and fall.  
    Fish and Game has been trapping bears around McGrath and moving them to other areas.  They have finally seen a survival rate for Moose calves.  The problem with what F&G has been doing is that a large percentage of the bears go back to the area from where they came.  And it is cost prohibitative.
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Don Fischer

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2005, 03:12:30 PM »
Have you thought about promoting black bears as a sourse of meat? I had a meat processor on Kalispell years ago that sugar cured them for me and they are great!

I think that the problems making them a furbearer are gonna be worse than imagined. NONYA is right. If people can sell them, they will poach them, hell they do it now and its not legal. A bounty just may be the answer.
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Offline 379 Peterbilt

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2005, 04:07:26 PM »
I just got the proposal book in the mail today. I see you also have the same prop (52) for brown bears too. This will be very interesting to see shake out in the coming months.

Very interesting topic.....
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Offline Daveinthebush

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No doubt
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2005, 04:15:14 PM »
There is no doubt that with some education people would think the meat edible.  I cooked up four black bear corned roasts last weekend and they were great.  The bears we took this spring were all good bears.  
Nothing wrong with bear meat.
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Offline Sourdough

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2005, 07:34:42 PM »
I put them in seperately because that way we stand the best chance of getting the Black Bears at least.  The Grizzlies would be good, but you will notice that one is temporary.  And I honestly don't think it stands a chance myself.  But I put it in anyway, some people said if I am putting in one for Black Bears at least put one in for Grizzlies since they are just as predatory as Black Bears.
    Yes most people here that hunt Black Bears know there is no finer hams than Spring Black Bear.  Everyone I know like and eat Black Bear.  So it is well known that they are eatiable.  
    Yes, I put in a total of seven proposals.  I just did not think about bringing  them all up here.
    Grizzlies eat more carrion in the interior, they also take an animal that they kill and bury it till it gets ripe then eat it.  Their meat stinks so bad, few people want to eat them.
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Thebear_78

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2005, 02:10:59 AM »
I think it would be a good idea.  It would give some incentive for people to shoot more bears.  After a person shots a couple of brown/griz you don't have anywhere else on your wall to hang them and loose interest.  Black bears are the same.  I could have shot several black bears this last summer but passed on them all because I didn't want to bother hauling them out, I was already moose hunting so meat wasn't a big issue.  If I could have sold the hides it would have been another story.  It would be a win/win situation because I coudl have the meat and then sell the hide/skull/claws to recoup  some of the hunt costs.  You can only have so many  bear rugs hanging around and it gets kind of expensive to have them tanned and give them out to friends.  THey are already opening up brown bears to no tag, no limit in some areas, Letting people sell the hides would get more guys out hunting them.  If they still had to be sealed before they could be sold there wouldn't be any more trouble with poaching than there is now.  Sure probably some would happen, but no more than already is.  Plus the access of legal bear parts would put a damper on the black market trade.  Why rist getting caught with illegal goods when you can get legitimate stuff.
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Offline Sourdough

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Trapping Black Bears
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2005, 10:30:55 AM »
Thebear_78:  Bingo, You hit the nail on the head.
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Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.
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