Author Topic: Stupid Muzzleloader Tricks (Read 3195 times)

Longcruise · « **on:** June 01, 2005, 04:26:33 PM »

Well, I did one over the weekend and thought it might be educational to describe it here for the benefit of those who are able, unlike myself, to learn other than the "hard way"

If anybody else has their own story to tell, then go ahead and add on here. Maybe we'll save someone else some pain and suffering. :lol:

I picked up a .45 TC barrel for my tc Hawken at a gun show and it was a great purchase (only 40 bucks and bore is like new). Only problem was that the hammer did not hit the nipple quite right on the .45 barrel so I decided to try to cold bend it to a happy medium for both barrels. Long story short, I bent the cup of the hammer over in the process and decided that the way to fix it was to grind the cup off and just leave a flat hammer surface. I've seen a number of english shotguns with flat faced hammers so it seemed like a good idea.

End result. A large piece of a cap launced rearward into my cheek just below the lens of my glasses. Result was part burn, part cut and part bruise including a major welt. On top of that, the blood just would not stop flowing which just made my dumb mistake all the more public.

I guess the lesson to be learned is pretty obvious. The greater lesson for any and all of you who don't wear eye protection is this; If I'd not worn eye protection and if the cap piece had been struck two inches higher I'd be playing pirate at all future halloween party's :shock: :oops:

So, it's your turn :grin:

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #1 on:** June 01, 2005, 05:45:36 PM »

This one is not about a muzzleloader but here it is anyway. I was making 7.65 Argentine ammo using military 30-06 cases. If you cut off the neck at the base of the bullet collar just forward of the taper you can run the brass into a 7.65 die and voila you have 7.65 Argentine brass. I took a bunch to the range and during the shooting I picked up one and dropped it into the breech and rammed the bolt forward. (Now the 7.65 Argentine rifle has a cock on closing action which means the firing pin is out when you close the bolt) as the bolt went forward there was a very loud noise and much blood and burning happened at the base of my throat and my right hand was very numb. I found the bolt about forty feet rearward of the shooting bench and when all the dust settled I figured out I had tried to chamber a real 30-06 which is about 3/8 of an inch longer than the 7.65 so the firing pin hit the primer before the action was closed. The good thing was the damage healed in time and I still have a right hand (a complete one). Next???

dlemaster · « **Reply #2 on:** June 02, 2005, 01:12:14 AM »

Well.. fortunately my story doesn't include injury, just cockiness and stupidity.
About 10 years ago went to our local muzzle loading range with a couple of friends, when we got there there a few other guys already there. While talking and shooting (bad combo) the subject came up about dry balling (loading the ball with no powder). In my infinite wisdom, I bragged that I had never loaded a ball without powder in 28 years of shooting muzzle loaders. I then proceeded to dry ball twice in the same day. A most humbling experience.

On the other hand, my brother was filling some premeasured charge tubes when he left to "shake hands with the president"(use the bathroom).
His wife knocked over the open can of powder and spilled a fair amount. She swept up the powder and dumped it in the trash and didn't tell my brother. Later that evening he took the trash out to be burned, already had the fire going when he emptied the bin onto the fire. With the ensuing flash he lost his eyebrows, some hair , and part of his mustache, as well as ripping apart a brand new pair of jeans in the rush to leave the general area.
Next....

Regards, Dave

Birddog6 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 02, 2005, 09:45:50 PM »

About 30 years ago I was watching a guy experiment with nipples in a percussion halfstock in .54 cal. Now keep in mind the guy just bought a bunch of them & drilled some of them out & etc. I noticed when he thread them in the threads appeared to be loose........ questioned him of this & he says "Oh, they are all like that".
About 10 min later upon firing the rifle with this ? OK ? nipple, the nipple blew & went under his eye hitting the cheekbone, then glancing up into his eye socket. (He did have shooting glasses on) From what I am told about 12 surgeries later he can partially see from that eye.

My point is, that was REALLY dumb....... the nipple is either the Correct Threads & fits right or it is the WRONG threads. You don't put metric nipples in standard threads, nor visa versa. When you don't snug up til the last thread, something is wrong........ cause that is all that is holding it, one thread. This is serious stuff & can hurt or kill you or a innocent bystander.. Don't take the chance, do it Right or don't do it at all.........
If you are not sure, take it to a competent BP shop or find someone that Knows for sure........

ribbonstone · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2005, 04:12:22 AM »

Will find some old gunswith that hammer recess destroyed. Usually someone put a too-tall nipple in place, the front of the recess makes contact with the nipple, and it fractures the recess at the front.

(Too short a nipple usuually wont fire at all,,,but it could do the same thing to the rear of the recess).

Figure the front missing on the recess wouldn't be too bad a problem...just change to the right height nipple and ignore the gap in the reces towards the fron.

The above was my first thought, and I was WRONG.,

Your suporting hand is out there ahead of the hammer with your fingers curled around to the sides of the fore end. Was "stung" by the old gun with this missing chunk...the gap seems to act like a funnel, directing flash and cap fragments through the gap and right at your fingers. One cap chunk went in about 1/4" at the base of my little finger and had to be dug out.

Easy fix would be a new hammer...if you could find one. Welding up the old hammer is tricky, but have seen it done (creating a percusion shotgun hammer from a cartridge shotgun hammer). Could lathe dout a new recess seperate from the hammer and weld that on. OR cut a replacement hammer at the neck and weld in on in place of the abused one.

With welding are stuck with trying to get the temper right on a hammer made of two differnt steels...can do it, but it's just a whole bunch easier to get a replacement hammer if at all possible.

crow_feather · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2005, 07:52:27 AM »

A novice in Santa Rosa Calif bought a T/C, brought it home but wanted to try it out. He dumped a "bunch" of powder in the barrel, stuffed a "wad" of toilet paper on top of the powder, stepped outside and let loose. His new nickname is "Righty" Even a T/C will let loose when you overcharge and put a plug in the bore.

C F

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2005, 07:56:03 AM »

My point is, that was REALLY dumb....... the nipple is either the Correct Threads & fits right or it is the WRONG threads. You don't put metric nipples in standard threads, nor visa versa. When you don't snug up til the last thread, something is wrong........ cause that is all that is holding it, one thread. This is serious stuff & can hurt or kill you or a innocent bystander.. Don't take the chance, do it Right or don't do it at all.........
If you are not sure, take it to a competent BP shop or find someone that Knows for sure........[/quote]

I just sent a brand new Green Mountain barrel back because they had a short time that a broken tap caused some nipple threads to be bad. Mine was in the middle of the serial numbers that could be bad but mine looked OK . I sent it back anyway. I have some idea what can happen with a nipple that comes out on ignition; it becomes a bullet.

flintman · « **Reply #7 on:** June 04, 2005, 09:39:29 AM »

But I sure wish I knew who the "gunsmith" was-bought a custom .40 flintlock,Douglas XX barrel,Doc Haddaway lock,great triggers,bueatiful work,until I shot it.
Said "gunsmith" had used an Uncle Mike's touchole liner that was made for a much thicker barrel.It blew out since only one or two threads held it barely in,cracked the stock,etc...
Pretty disgusted when that happened!

ribbonstone · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2005, 12:57:11 PM »

Been at the range with a guy who evidently belived touch holes couldn't bee too big....he was wrong. Heay load vented rather drastically, lucky it just snatched the flint from the jaws and shot it three benches over.

Bear Rider · « **Reply #9 on:** June 05, 2005, 04:18:35 PM »

A young lady that I knew some years back launched a custom made brass ramrod with a large cylindrical brass handle downrange one day.

Man that smarted! :eek:

Her next ramrod had a large ball for a handle -- large enough to obscure her line of sight if she forgot it. :wink:

roundball · « **Reply #10 on:** June 05, 2005, 05:02:17 PM »

Quote from: Keith Lewis

I just sent a brand new Green Mountain barrel back because they had a short time that a broken tap caused some nipple threads to be bad.

I had to return a .58cal Flint barrel under that same recall...they put a new breechplug on it...

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #11 on:** June 05, 2005, 06:48:42 PM »

I guess I got some bad information since I don't think a flinter has a breechplug with nipple threads in it?

?

tryit · « **Reply #12 on:** June 06, 2005, 05:42:10 AM »

Buddy of mine had a .54 Leman style flint lock rifle. He went to see the mountain men movie (C. Heston et al) and came to the range the next weekend shooting and blowing down the barrel. We questioned the wisdom of such actions but his comment was soften the fouling or clearing sparks or something of that nature. After a session with a dull flint or soft frizzen he got the powder to flash in the pan and brought the muzzle up to blow down the barrel when the gun went off. It blew off his hat tattooed his forehead and left a nasty hole in the roof of the shooting cover. The range from there on banned any barrel blowing. Tryit.

Slamfire · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2005, 02:48:23 PM »

I was walkin' back from the target when a "Senior" moment struck. I picked up my rifle and said to my self, "Did I dry ball that"? Pickin' up my ramrod I watched it disappear from sight down the barrel, a sure sign that the barrel is empty. Shook out the ramrod, took off the nipple and dribbled some powder down the hole. Put the nipple back on, capped it and pulled the trigger. When nothin' but sparks came out I realized what the ramrod had tried to tell me, I hadn't balled it dry or otherwise. :roll:

WD45 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2005, 05:46:29 AM »

Think I'll just plead the 5th on this one :-D

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #15 on:** June 11, 2005, 08:52:38 AM »

Quote from: Keith Lewis

I guess I got some bad information since I don't think a flinter has a breechplug with nipple threads in it??

Just talked with GM and there is a tapped hole in a flintlock that uses the same thread as the nipple for the vent liner (I think that is the right name for the insert). Apparently the bad tap could have made bad threads in sidelocks and flintlocks. Mine ended up being OK and did not have to be altered. I had inspected it before sending it in and thought everything looked OK but to be safe I sent it in anyway.

handirifle · « **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2005, 10:18:59 AM »

Well since I'm new to this stuff, hopefully my dumbest thing is on my post "stuck bullet". Wow, lots of ways to get hurt with these suckers. Can't be too careful.

I bet the barrel blower had a hard time hearing for a while too. :eek:

handirifle · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2005, 05:03:04 PM »

Not a ML but still VERY stupid.

This just happened about a week ago to one of the gun shop owners. He and his son run the place and are friends of mine. One day las week a moron brings in some old (according to the owner) Spanish POS of a 32 cal auto pistol. Tells the owners son (who is running the counter) that he doesn't know what to do with it since he has tried for a couple days to get it to fire. Says it doesn't work. He hands it across the counter to the son, who grabs it by the barrel, cause said moron is bringing it around in line with spn's midsection.

No one has a finger on the trigger, but there is some kind of bar safety on this thing (according to son) that is somehow pressed as the transfer is taking place.

At this point, you guessed it, moron brought it in loaded and a round in chamber.

Well, NOW it decides to work and proceeds to blow a 32 cal hole into son's left hand and really mess up his palm with buzzle flash. Went through a couple bones and bounced through a couple display cases.

The owner hears the shot and comes from the back room with gun drawn and sees his son with a VERY bloody hand at his waist (gut) and almost fired to kill said moron, who at this time is probably thinking about changing his pants. His son stopped him in time, lucky for moron.

The cops said "you should have gone ahead, no one would have pressed charges". 011 was called but was responding too slowly and son could feel himself going into shock from blood loss and told his dad, he needed to drive him to the hospital. They told moron in not nice words he had to leave since they had to close up shop. Moron started to grab the gun and got a gun pointed at him again and was told again to LEAVE. The police will be wanting that gun.

Son is recovering fairly well, but movement in hand remains to be seen.

This in NOT my son by the way, in case you're wondering.

crow_feather · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2005, 06:37:21 PM »

Worst that I ever heard of was a father, son, and friend hunting. Son, with a side by side, shot and wounded a racoon, reloaded and walked up to the animal. He decided not to waste a load, so he slammed the butt of the shotgun on the racoon's head. The shotgun went off and killed the son. The father, seeing that a racoon was responsible for his son's death, grabbed the shotgun, and slammed it on the animal's head. The other barrel went off and promptly killed the father.

C F

leoparddog · « **Reply #19 on:** June 28, 2005, 08:47:46 AM »

Worst I've heard.

This happened in GA a few years back. They just opened a muzzleloader week between bow and gun seasons. It seems a father and son had gone hunting and upon returning to the car they were standing close together facing each other and the father decides to discharge his ML.

It appears after the fact that he had loaded it with smokeLESS powder. The barrel blew up and flying shrapnell killed them both. They were found lying together next to the car. The father had a small container (of some sort, don't remember) of smokeless powder in his pocket.

D.E.C · « **Reply #20 on:** June 30, 2005, 01:25:12 PM »

My supervisor built a T/C HAWKEN about 15 years ago, shot it once and put it away without cleaning. He recently has gotten reinterested in muzzle loaders, after hearing me talk about them, and asked me if I could clean out the rust so he could shoot it. I havent seen it but my guess would be no. D.E.C

old4x4 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2005, 07:35:51 AM »

Ok, ok.here's mine. Hunting with my father maybe 15 years ago and I had a TC Renegade. Saw a big deer come thru and set the trigger. Never got a shot, but as we were walking back to the truck (I had the rifle over my shoulder with a sling), the gun goes off. I had a "mountain man" hat on and it just blew it down over my face/left a burn mark on it. Pops wasn't very happy, neither was I. Took a couple days for my right ear to stop ringing.

slayer · « **Reply #22 on:** December 06, 2005, 12:21:51 PM »

Not a story, worst I ever did was dry ball. Are all of the newer GM barrels ok? I was going to buy as new .32 caplock barrel for my Renegade. Thanks-Jack.

captchee · « **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:32:22 PM »

dang another double post things sure load slow here

captchee · « **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2005, 02:34:46 PM »

Saw a fella loading a flinter just after firing during a speed shoot one time . This was back before this issue about blowing down a barrel came about . He fire dumped powder and spit the ball . As he slammed his metal ram rod down the rifle went off , sending the RR into the roof of the range shed and laying his fingers out nicely on the ground .
Two sides to every story I guess blowing down the barrel wasnt dumb . Blowing down a charge barrel was.

One that happened to me .
Im building a SXS for a fell and when I get the barrels off of an original 1833 gun I drop a Rrand measure to the breech. Sure enough somethings down there . I go out to my old oil drum , I have set for just this and let the barrels swim for a week . After taking the nipples of I se what looks to be dirt and rust . Taking a long ¼ dril bit I drill to the breeches and from the nipple holes .
When I go to remove the breech plugs to check the thread they will not budge . So heating the breech is the option . We set the tourch into the nipple holes and nothing happens. So we figure they are safe and star heating the breach plugs to get them to loosen up . Well to make a long story short they had charges in them and even though they looked like dirt and rust they went off while I had them between my legs in a hand vice. Putting two very nice holes in a friends driveway .
After asking the costumer about the barrels he said they had been in the bar for 60 years that he knew and probably over 100 since they were last used because they were his great granddads .

dont leave loads in your rifles fellas they may end up being there longer then you think

Rum River · « **Reply #25 on:** December 07, 2005, 02:41:57 AM »

The neighbor guy has been convinced by a mutual friend of ours that the only way to get positive ignition in a T/C Hawken is to change over to musket nipples.

Was at the neighbor's place when he fired to clear after a day of hunting, the pressure shooting out of that oversize nipple will bring the hammer to full cock.

Both of them now brag about the 'semi-automatic' Hawken they've invented.

My comments to these guys on using the standard nipple, keeping the touchhole clean and snapping caps before loading have so far fallen on deaf ears.

jeager106 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 07, 2005, 08:55:06 PM »

When I first got into black powder shooting about 25 years ago there wasn't much printed information on loading data. Just what information was in the owners manual.
Natch we asked gun shop owners for information.
Old wives tales and flat bad information abounded.
Like: You can't load enough black in a gun to hurt it.
Use a small charge of smokeless as a 'kicker' charge.
Use 3fg instead of 2fg, it's cleaner burning.
All black powder is the same no matter who makes it.
And other dangerous advice.
So When Swiss became available I got my hands on some and promptly loaded 100 grains of 2fg under a 600 grain solid minie bullet in my replica Zouave.
Whooooooooooie. That sucker kicked!
I decided the 600 grain minnie was the real culprit so put that gun up for a while due to a very sore shoulder.
I next fired up the .54 Lyman GPR flinter with 110 grains of Swiss 3fg under a p.r.b.
OUCH!
I metnioned these experiences on a talk board and promptly got educated on the properties of Swiss.
Seems there is a BIG difference in Swiss black, it being a sporting, vs. rifle grade powder.
Trust me, I load much more conservatively with Swiss now!

spitpatch · « **Reply #27 on:** December 08, 2005, 02:10:00 PM »

Quote from: jeager106

Seems there is a BIG difference in Swiss black, it being a sporting, vs. rifle grade powder.
Trust me, I load much more conservatively with Swiss now!

Whats the difference between sporting and rifle grade? Someone please educate me.

slayer · « **Reply #28 on:** December 09, 2005, 10:30:07 AM »

Very interesting. I would like to know also. I have heard Swiss has way more speed and kick than equal amounts of Goes, but have never tried it, just Goex and Elephant. Jack.