Author Topic: 45/70 vs. 45 long colt (Read 1608 times)

jl7030 · « **on:** December 01, 2005, 10:31:12 AM »

o.k. i've pretty much figured out from most of you that the sb1 frame will not handle the pressures of a 454 casull. scenerio #2, would it be possible to load 45/70 brass with a 45 colt projectile for the NEF 45colt/.410 survivor rifle . it is chambered for 3" .410 shells, so i should be chambered long enough. i currently shoot corbon loads, and from what i have seen in some forums a 45/70 can be shot on a sb1 frame. if this is possible, it would get the bullet closer to rifling which would help the accuracy. again, i don't know, but maybe one of you guys can help. interesting anyway.

JPH45 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2005, 12:46:19 PM »

Why not just get a 45-70 and shoot 300 grain bullets at 1400-1800 fps??? That is anything the 454 Casull will do with the same bullet weight. There are also a few cast bullet makers out there offering lighter bullets of appropriate diameter to use in the 45-70. You may also find that your NEF 45-70 barrel is a tad tight. Mine was 456 groove diameter and 450 bore diameter. It is not big deal to take a soft cast bullet and bump up the diameter in a larger sizing die. Even if you are .002" under your groove, soft lead and lead tin alloys will typically bump up to fill the groove diameter.

It would be nice though if NE would make a 454 Casull barrel. I think such a barrel would find a lot more users than the 500 SillyassWhatsitfor.

jl7030 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2005, 02:38:51 AM »

after i posted this topic, i figured out that the 45/70 brass is larger than a 45 colt and a 454 casull. so what about light loading a 454 casull bullet to stay within the pressure ranges of the sb1 reciever. that would be about 35 to 40kpsi from what i understand. this would still get the projectile closer to the rifling in the barrel of the 45 colt/410 survivor than the standard 45 colt brass which should improve accuracy and still have a little bite behind it, huh? help me out guys, i'm new to the reloading thing.

knight0334 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2005, 03:27:09 AM »

The 45-70 isn't a straight walled case like the .45LC, but rather a slightly tapered case. No way will the 45-70 fit in the chamber due to the larger diameter head..

If you want a longer case to work with, take a .444 Marlin case and fire form it in your 45/410 handi. When the .444 Marlin case is blown straight out it has a .452 slug capability. ...when is the 45-70 when blown straight is a .475cal.

Couger · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2005, 05:30:35 AM »

jl7030 ......

Do you have to use a .410/45C barrel?

If instead you have a 12 or 16 gauge barrel, www.mcace.com (MCA Sports out of Anchorage, AK) makes barrel inserts for those two gauges to shoot the .45/70 (up to 18" long).

If that outfit/insert gave you good enough accuracy, you would have better performance than either the .45 Colt or the Casull.

jl7030 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2005, 06:56:11 AM »

thanks for the info. all i need to do is shoot the .444 shell in my gun?

? i haven't heard of fireforming except for this forum. i'm fairly new to reloading. what specs do i load the 444 with the 45 bullet to.

couger..... i already have the 45lc/410 survivor rifle

Duckdog · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2005, 01:46:17 AM »

I have one of these and I get pretty good accuracy out of it, and I feel the bead is the weak link. I'm a caster, so I just make sure that I'm casting larger bullets out of my 45 LC dies, and regardless of the jump, it catches the rifling pretty good and imparts a good spin on the bullet.

I like the gun, and am going to get a stainless one, when Wally Worlds supplier gets them in. The best bet may be for you to either cast some larger bullets, or buy some at least .452+ and see what happens.

jl7030 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 04, 2005, 05:51:39 AM »

me and a buddy of mine drilled and tapped the barrel for a tasco 3x9x40 scope. i get pretty good accuracy out of it, no complaints, but i was just looking for a way to improve the accuracy even more. anybody got any ideas on hot loads for the 45/410 with a sb1 reciever. i like to use mine for deer and i am currently shooting pmc +p ammo. last weekend i shot a deer and the bullet didn't even go all the way through. i couldn't find it due to lack of a good enough blood trail. looked for a couple of hours, and found spots of blood few and far between (about every 50 yards)

mt3030 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2005, 12:03:34 PM »

jl7030:

Could I ask a few questions without anyone taking offense? Are you an experienced hunter? If not, you are really handicapping yourself with your selection of tools, not mention making it hard on the game. What is "pretty good accuracy"? How far was the shot? Where do you feel you placed the shot? If you put into a shoulder or guts, I'm not surprised you lost it. Most experienced hunters will consider the Colt 45 a short range cartridge, and must have excellent shot placement, such as head or lungs.

The 45/410 Survivor was never designed as a deer tool, with its large jump from case to rifling. The 45 Colt is an excellent pistol round, but even out of a long gun the range is not greatly extended. And placement is alway critical.

Just my opinion, but I think you need to consider a more powerful tool for the welfare of the game animal.

Wally

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2005, 12:14:57 PM »

I agree mt3030, there are many better cartridges out there for that job, more efficient and better adapted for the job at hand....<><.... :wink:

jl7030 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 05, 2005, 04:17:08 AM »

mt3030........ i have been hunting about 10 years. the reason i have this gun is because its my 10 yr old sons rifle and the only rifle i have at the moment and because my other 2 are sent off being repaired after the Katrina incident (they got water damaged). also my shot was only about 50yds. it was close enough for me to see the indention when the bullet hit it. i hit the deer right behind the front shoulder (exactly where i aimed) , but still didn't get a good blood trail. as far as accuracy being "pretty good", the gun doesn't match up to the accuracy of a rifle round, but i can get a 2" pattern out of it at 75 yds as compared to about a 1" pattern out of my .308. i know some people in this forum say they can't get accuracy out of this gun, but mine's not as bad as alot of people say theirs is. by the way, no offense taken. i should've been more clear the first time. thanks for the info.

mt3030 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 05, 2005, 05:26:59 PM »

jl7030:

Sounds like you did your part, with adaquate shot placement. I would guess that the 45 Colt just wasn't up to the task. Just not enough gun. Good luck.

Wally