Author Topic: Alright, explain to me what happened (Read 843 times)

Maryland Hunter · « **on:** November 29, 2005, 02:44:03 PM »

I shot a doe this weekend with my 6.5X55, using Sierra 120 grain Prohunters. Shot was at 50 yards broadside. The shot was right behind the shoulder, right where the crosshairs were. She ran over 200 yards before expiring. I had a decent blood trail and found her, but again, 200 yards away. The exit hole was around 5/8", and when I gutted her, everything inside was pretty much intact. This was my first harvest with handloads, and with a rifle, and I'm a little dissapointed with the results. I've always shot bow, slugs, and black powder, and never had a good shot deer go this far. I called Sierra, and they feel that my load, bullet, etc., is fine, just a freak occurrence. What do you think? I'm shooting around 2600 fps, is this enough for this bullet. Did the bullet expand, just not enough? I've also worked up some Nosler BT's and I'll try them next, but I'm very interested in hearing some of the opinons of what happened, on this board.
Thanks,

MH

Dave in WV · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:21:42 PM »

It would seem you got some expansion since the exit hole was 5/8". Beyond that, opinion and conjecture is all anyone can come up with. I would not consider it a bullet failure and would try it a few times more before writing the load off. Sometimes animals just don't want to die.

Gregory · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:25:48 PM »

When I was living in upstate NY I shot a fork horn buck as he ran by my tree stand, the shot was no more than 10 yds. I hit him through the lungs broadside and he made about 200 yds before giving it up. I don't know why, but it happens sometimes.

Broken-arrow · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:32:39 PM »

I quit using prohunters and partitions because I had the same results as you several times. With a well-placed shot like you described, in my experience the ballistic tip and Game-king HPBT deliver a lot more shock and put deer down much Quicker.

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:44:15 PM »

The bullet which made the reputation of the very popular 6.5 JDJ cartridge is the 120 Speer SP. Launched at ca. 2400 fps from the Contender has been as reliable as possible for hunderds (perhaps thousands) of hunters.

That said, sometimes things happen which cannot be explained. Examples are legion in war stories, where some combatants are incapacitated by a superficial wound while others continue on with mortal wounds. Same with animals, hunters who have not ween similar things as you describe just don't have much or varied experience in the field. Heck, even ducks exhibit similar odd behavior at times.

Questor · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2005, 03:57:26 PM »

I'd start using a different bullet. Maybe you had a bullet failure, maybe you didn't. But you'll always suspect them. Get some Speer bullets and you probably won't have that problem again.

Iowegan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2005, 08:02:30 PM »

What makes the 6.5X55 good at long ranges also makes it bad at close ranges. The long skinny bullet has a high sectional density. This spells penetration. What you got was over penetration because you were too close. That same shot at 150 yards would probably have been more fatal. It's hard to believe but sometimes less=more.

I hunted deer for many years with a 7X57 and always got one-shot kills. One day a buck mule deer walked up right behind me. I turned and fired at no more than 10 feet. I saw the bullet hit the kill zone yet the deer took off running for over 100 yards then folded. When I dressed it out, the heart was blown out. I had heard other stories like this but never believed them until it happened to me.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2005, 03:29:56 AM »

There are no magic bullets. A bullet soft enough to expand much on a cross chest shot is likely to break up when it has a lot of tissue and bone to get through. The problem is even harder with light-for-caliber bullets because there is less length and weight to make a very soft nose and a rear section that will keep going even if the nose breaks off.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2005, 03:36:46 AM »

Maryland Hunter - there is another thread on one of the other forums on the Graybeard site about the 6.5 Swede supposedly not doing its job and you might think about reading those posts. The load you were using is a great load for the 6.5 Swede and it worked, just not as fast as you wanted it to. I have had whitetail run that far after hits with any number of different calibers, except for flatnosed lever calibers. Sometimes if they move a couple of inches just before the shot it will throw off whree the bullet impacts. If the slug manages to slip between a couple of ribs on the way in, and out, you might see minimal damage. If you just nick the major arteries or heart the result will be the same. If you slip it through the lungs it may do the same thing.

I have shot whitetail with the 6.5 from over 200 yds and if they don't jump at the sound or the impact they usually fall over. If I hit a shoulder they get knocked over and stay where they fall. The 6.5 Swede is a great game rifle - don't give up on it, flukes happen all the time. Mikey.

jhalcott · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2005, 05:51:24 AM »

I use the 6.5JDJ quite often,I also use the old 3006. I've shot deer that were "alert" with both of these guns that ran a good distance before dropping. I've killed a few that dropped on the spot too. The only thing I've learned is "There are no gaurantees" when you shoot an animal. I saw a small doe drag herself 30 yards after being hit and run over by a cement truck. I cut her throat to finish her off! You just tagged a SUPER deer,that's all!

beemanbeme · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2005, 06:27:22 AM »

I'm gonna guess that your bullet squeezed between two ribs, hit nothing of substance going thru and squeezed out between two ribs. I had that happen to an antelope and a mulie. The 'lope merely started trotting forward with me thinking I had missed. I waited for him to stop as he didn't seem very spooked. In a moment, he lay down and then rolled over on his side. Dead.

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2005, 10:03:36 AM »

Wow, thanks for all of the replies. A lot of great advice out there. I haven't given up yet, but I have to admit, my confidence is shaken a little!
You are correct that a rib was not hit going in, but one was hit going out. I just expected more devistation inside than what I saw. So do I understand correctly that this situation occasionally happens with all calibers and bullets? Again, keep in mind, I'm new to rifles. I've never understood how these "little" bullets kill an animal, being used to broadheads, slugs, and blackpowder bullets. I'm starting to understand the concept, but this first experience has me perplexed. So, am I on the right track thinking that it wouldn't hurt to work up the load a little faster with the Sierra, or try a softer bullet at the current velocity, all shooting conditions the same?

Thanks again for of the help.

MH

lefty o · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2005, 06:57:19 PM »

that bullet went through somewhere, could you find any organs with holes in them? generally if you put a hole in the heart, they wont go more than 20-30yds, usually less. i popped a button buck saturday with my swede shooting 140gr hornady SST's. both heart and lungs were hit, deer traveled less than 6 feet from where i shot it, shot was about 40yds. the 6.5x55 will kill well if the bullet is placed right.

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2005, 08:34:52 AM »

lefty o,
There was a hole, albeit small, in the lungs. Other than the small hole, which was not easily seen, lungs were in perfect shape. She wasn't on her feet long, even though she ran quite a distance, and the blood trail was fine, I was just expecting more results similar to what you described.

MH

kombi1976 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:27:36 PM »

Keep in mind that when you shoot an animal, even if it's a devastating hit, there's still blood moving around the body.
This is particularly true for big animals.
So if they don't hit the ground first up the pure momentum and impetus keeps moving that blood around until enough blood empties out of the system and they can't go on.
In your case I can only suppose the blood is slowly filling in the lungs until the deer blacked out.
I agree with the over-penetration comments though.
The same thing that makes most 6.5 cals bigger in the field than on paper(i.e.nice long bullets that have a high BC and good penetration) can create a problem at close range.
I use Gamekings in my 25 cal with good effect on soft skinned game like roos & Hornady SSTs and Nosler BTs would probably be just as good.

clodbuster · « **Reply #15 on:** December 08, 2005, 12:17:43 PM »

M-H First of all, congrats on a successful hunt. Personally have seen doe run 300 yards after boileroom hit with 12 ga slug. Huge bloodtrail and much internal organ devastation. Can't explain it. With your comment of a "hole" throught the lungs I'd say bullet failed to expand. Can't image a lung hit with an expanded bullet that didn't liquify the lungs. I've had nothing but success with Hornady standard interlock out of 250 Savage, 270 win, 308 win, 7 mag on deer. Happy Holidays to all!

Brithunter · « **Reply #16 on:** December 09, 2005, 10:16:43 AM »

Hi All,

First of all congratulations on your deer :grin:

Now I would speed up the load a bit, 2600 with 120 grn bullets seems a little slow to me in the Swedish cartridge, I would be looking for about 200fps more out of the 120 grn bullet and I find they work very well. 2400 fps with a 120 grn bullet is what I would expect out of the Mannlicher Schoenauer cartridge.

Now as to the Doe running so far I believe that you have seen what is called Messamasics (spelling?)= pre programmed muscle movements. Deer are prey animals and as such are just about always ready to bolt, you deer could have been suspisious and the hit of the shot trigged the response.

victorcharlie · « **Reply #17 on:** December 09, 2005, 10:35:07 AM »

I'd say Iowegan nailed it.........to close and to fast........

Steve P · « **Reply #18 on:** December 09, 2005, 04:08:10 PM »

I have hit two deer at less than 20 yards with 7mm rem mag and they dropped like a rock. Most deer I have shot have dropped like a rock.

Two come to mind that didn't:

My first ever deer hit with a Model 94 30-30. Hit right behind the shoulder at less than 100 yards. Deer spun 180 degrees and stopped. I shot again, and hit it on the opposite side, right behind the shoulder. Turn around and ran. I found it about 100 yards later. Big blood trail. Two shots thru the heart. Just didn't realize it was dead.

Three years ago had my 30-06AI with 165 Nosler partitions. Had a deer coming right at me about 45 yards out. Put the crosshairs on the chest and squeezed. Deer put it in triple overdrive and ran about 50 yards and piled into a barbed wire fence. If fence hadn't been there, certainly would have gone further. Hole about size of a quarter thru that heart.

Sometimes they just don't know they are dead. I have seen heart shot elk go for 400-500 yards before piling up. I have seen where some hunters are now using the more expensive hunting expanding bullets and actually doing shots thru the shoulder to provide more shock to the animals to stop them. Does waste a little more meat. On the deer that is a lot. On an elk, you don't realize the loss because they are so big.

Congratulations on the shot and the deer. It sounds like you did everything just right. Hope you enjoy it.

Steve

Maryland Hunter · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2005, 12:19:37 AM »

Thanks again for all of the responses.
From what I've researched here, and on other sites, it sounds like the ProHunters have a heavier jacket, and sometimes have a hard time expanding. I'm limited to the rifle areas that I can hunt, here in Maryland, but I hope to get another chance, so that I can try out the Nosler BT's that I have loaded up, and compare the difference. Being primarily a bowhunter, I tend to wait for a broadside shot, even when gun hunting, so the softer bullet may be the way to go. I guess that this is the fun of handloading, trying to find all of the right components to work together right.
Thanks for all of the info, if there's anymore, please respond.

MH