Author Topic: WI - Cops could check for concealed carry permits  (Read 822 times)

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Offline FWiedner

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WI - Cops could check for concealed carry permits
« on: December 01, 2005, 04:15:03 AM »
Cops could check traffic stops for concealed carry permits

TODD RICHMOND

MADISON, Wis. - Police could check whether owners of cars they stop are carrying concealed weapons under a new provision Republicans tucked into a bill that would let Wisconsin residents carry hidden weapons.

Under the provision, officers also could face charges if they draw their own sidearm on motorists simply because they have a concealed carry permit.

The bill's sponsors say the amendment eliminates police lobbying organizations' major hang-ups with the bill while protecting concealed carry permit holders' safety and privacy.

"This was the biggest issue for law enforcement," said Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, one of the bill's main authors. "We've been working with law enforcement throughout the process to really bring them on board."

Under the amendment, whenever an officer runs the registration of a vehicle he stops, a screen would pop up alerting him if the owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, said Casey Perry, executive director of the Wisconsin Troopers Association.

"This way we would know before we approach the vehicle," Perry said. "We think it's a safety issue for the people that we stop, as well as the officers. It is major because it's a deal breaker for us."

The bill's creators have insisted the list of permit holders remain secret to ensure criminals don't prey on people who aren't carrying. Police groups say that would put officers in danger.

Under the amendment, an officer who pulls his weapon on a driver, forces them out of the car or makes them lie on the ground simply because they have a concealed carry permit could be found guilty of a misdemeanor, Gunderson said during a news conference Wednesday morning. Any officer caught running registrations just to find out who has permits or disclosing that information publicly also would face a misdemeanor.

Gunderson said the troopers association added the misdemeanor charges to the bill.

"We wanted to make sure there was no abuse," Gunderson said.

The GOP-controlled legislative Joint Finance Committee was expected to vote on the full bill later Wednesday.

The bill's opponents denounced the amendment as a trick to convince swing lawmakers carrying concealed weapons is safe.

"They can tweak this bill all they want, and it will still be a ridiculous and dangerous piece of legislation," Jeri Bonavia, executive director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort, a statewide group that works to reduce gun violence, said in a statement.

Debate has raged at the Capitol over the concealed carry bill. The legislation would allow Wisconsin residents who pass firearms training and obtain permits to carry concealed handguns, knives and billy clubs in most public places. The few exceptions include schools, taverns, and police stations.

The GOP, pushed by National Rifle Association lobbyists, passed similar legislation in 2003, saying people should be allowed to shoot criminals who attack them.

Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle vetoed it, saying the measure would jeopardize police officers' lives and allow guns in malls and libraries. The Republican-controlled Legislature fell short of overriding Doyle in early 2004.

Identical versions of the current bill are moving through both the Republican-controlled Senate and Assembly. The Legislature's Joint Finance Committee was scheduled to take them up Wednesday.

State Sen. Dave Zien, R-Eau Claire, another of the bill's sponsors, said the new police-notification clause will make the bill "veto-proof."

No, said Doyle spokeswoman Melanie Fonder.

"It doesn't change the fact the governor doesn't think people should be carrying weapons around," Fonder said.

Waukesha County District Attorney Paul Bucher said Wednesday he has joined four other district attorneys from around Wisconsin that support the amended bill, including Tom Storm of Fond du Lac County; Sandy Williams of Ozaukee County; Erik Peterson of Iowa County; and Ken Kratz of Calumet County.

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/13286567.htm


*FW Note:

I don't have a problem with cops who want to look after their own safety during traffic stops.  I do have a problem with cops who feel that they have license to abuse their authority by harassing and bullying honest citizens who are engaged in legal activities.

I also have a problem any chief executive of a state who wields his authority to oppress the people he is in office to serve.  He needs to consider that his personal opinion is the least important factor regarding the performance of that job.

We need to remember who works for who, here.

 :?
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline EsoxLucius

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WI - Cops could check for concealed carry p
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2005, 06:51:38 AM »
I have always thought a good provision would be a requirement that any permit holder that is stopped by LE identify themselves as legally carrying, state they are willing to surrender their weapon to the LEO, and be required to surrender the firearm to the LEO if asked to.  The firearm would have to be returned to the permit holder at the conclusion of the stop, unless the permit holder was to be charged with a crime other than a traffic violation handled by citation.
We learn something new everyday whether we want to or not.

Offline PA-Joe

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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2005, 07:23:15 AM »
Doesn't this mean that the state is going to maintain an active "registry of gun owners"? Isn't this the same as gun registration? That is what happened in Europe. They simply got the registry list and then went home to home and asked for the owners to turn their guns in. This is not a good thing!

Offline 379 Peterbilt

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Re: WI - Cops could check for concealed carry permits
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2005, 08:46:49 AM »
Quote
MADISON, Wis. - Police could check whether owners of cars they stop are carrying concealed weapons under a new provision Republicans tucked into a bill that would let Wisconsin residents carry hidden weapons.


What a load of bull. Unwarranted piece of garbage legislation. I know they are trying to get the cops on board, but c'mon. I also see it as a way to get Jim bleeping Doyle to sign it.

NEWSFLASH: He will veto any CC bill. He can dress up the excuse to come off as though he is "saving" the mallshoppers and librarians, etc, but the fact remains he is a former Atty general democrat who dispises guns and gun owners, period.

If that wasnt already well known, here is more proof:

Quote
No, said Doyle spokeswoman Melanie Fonder.

"It doesn't change the fact the governor doesn't think people should be carrying weapons around," Fonder said.


Doyle sucks. Man, where's Tommy. Even his brother Ed sure looks good right about now.


Quote
FW NOTE:
I also have a problem any chief executive of a state who wields his authority to oppress the people he is in office to serve.  He needs to consider that his personal opinion is the least important factor regarding the performance of that job.

We need to remember who works for who, here.


Well said, FW. But I can answer the last part of that--Lawmakers work for themselves. Power, money, and whatever else they can suck out of us.

Why did the mayor of New York city spend $45,000,000 of his own money to get elected to a job that payes pennies in comparison? --

POWER!!

Offline jimster

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WI - Cops could check for concealed carry p
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2005, 02:31:38 PM »
Here in Michigan, they can run your plates during a stop, always did, and they can and do have access already to know you have a permit.
Once they run your plates, they have info on your and the guns registered in your name.
When I get pulled over in a traffic stop, I have both hands in plain sight, I tell the officer I have a concealed weapon, and ask him how he would like me to proceed. It is the law here now I must tell him right away I have a gun, but don't fool yourself, they already know that. You will get a citation if you don't tell him. If not worse.
Never had a problem, been pulled over for a tail lighht out, and a head light on another occasion. I have found so far the police are very nice and real cool with the way I conduct myself, they like my style of hands in plain sight, and asking how they would like me to proceed.
All that said...I understand what your saying about being pulled over just because I have a permit though...and I would not sit still if I thought that was the case.  If there were no reason he pulled me over...and I would be asking...and I thought it was because he knew I was a permit holder, I'd be down to the cop shop talking to some people about this. They would know me then for sure.

Offline dave375hh

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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2005, 02:25:22 AM »
Ohio's CCW was set up to ID a permitholder anytime they are run thru LEADS. We get a popup box Id'ing a permitholder no matter what type of check is run. Anything that comes up with a name on it will also Id a CCW permit. Permit holders are required to tell the officer at a traffic stop that they are a permit holder even when unarmed.

I'm both a permit holder, and A LEADS operator. I see both sides and noticed  that there have been no problems either way here. Most of the officers in this area are shooters or hunters, or both. My chief is an all out gunnut and loves to participate in Class III shoots along with several local class III  dealers.
Dave375HH

Offline FWiedner

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WI - Cops could check for concealed carry p
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 03:43:02 AM »
See dave, here's the thing, I don't think that you do see "both sides of it", because you don't see a problem.

Not trying to start anything.   :D

I'm not a resident of Ohio, and I'm not subject to those laws unless I set foot in that state.

My opinion as a civilian, non law-enforcement gun owner (not living in Ohio) is that Americans shouldn't need permits and shouldn't be registered like dogs just because they want to exercise their G_d given rights.

Reality is that I comply with the law and get required permits because I don't need the hassles involved in blowing that stuff off.

On topic, Texas also requires CHL (Concealed Handgun License) holders to inform LEOs immediately when they are carrying a firearm, to present their permit and any other identification required (Drivers License) and to surrender their firearm if asked to do so.  Texas CHL holders are not required to present their CHL if they are not carrying a firearm.

I'm sure that all Texas LEOs have access to a similar system, and know full well whether or not the person they are stopping (assuming that they are in their own car and it is registered to them) has a CHL.  Another consideration, Texas just recently passed a law that a CHL is not required to carry a concealed weapon in a vehicle.  I'm not sure though if the new law applies only to "travellers" or to all drivers.  I believe that it applies to all drivers.

 :-)
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline jimster

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WI - Cops could check for concealed carry p
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 01:04:29 PM »
I also have the same feelings about registration and permits. I also get down right mad at paying for rights we already have, 105 bucks, that some people don't have. I'd like to see someone sue for a permit, and make the state pay.
All that said, like you, I'm reduced ot having to comply with the law, and even so, isn't it ironic in the State of Michigan that I can carry a loaded gun without a permit, and it's not a felony, I can pay the fine and get my gun back (been there done that)...but if you have a permit and do something wrong it's a felony. It's no wonder I know so many good people who carry without a permit.
In the end, if things go too far, it will all come down to powder and bullets again.  God help anyone that isn't on the right side.

Offline BrianMcCandliss

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WI - Cops could check for concealed carry p
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 09:40:50 PM »
Quote from: jimster
Here in Michigan, they can run your plates during a stop, always did, and they can and do have access already to know you have a permit.


They can run your plates ANYTIME-- even if they want to get an attractive woman's personal information so they can pursue her (just like they can refrain from giving her a speeding-ticket so they can get a date instead).

This is the typical course of events ANYTIME that  Big Brother becomes involved in things that are matters of basic rights, like the right to bear arms (which is also the right to carry them concealed, under the right of privacy from public scrutiny and government searches): The state knows every facet in your damned life, whether there's a compelling interest or not.

Likewise, what's the point of knowing whether someone has a CCW permit or not? It won't make them any more or less likely to be carrying while driving, since that's illegal anyway (don't ask me why-- some stupid "road rage" argument or something equally baseless).

This is simply par for the course when citizens are required by law to register their weapons-- after even getting permission to own them: the state puts them under a microscope for no damned good reason, being guilty until proven innocent.
Likewise, no CRIMINAL ever applies for a permit to carry!

This is as stupid as the increased airport-security AFTER 9/11-- it's completely useless, but more just a way to suppress freedoms, while giving billions to airlines to abuse us more.

Offline jimster

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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2005, 04:43:35 PM »
You can't carry a gun while driving even with a CCW permit?
How did they get a law like that passed? We can drive with our guns here.
Rarely am I in my car without mine. That's why I went to the trouble of getting a CCW.
Guess they chip away at our rights a little at a time....

Jimster

Offline EsoxLucius

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We learn something new everyday whether we want to or not.