Author Topic: 'Cheap' Re-Chambering to Ackley Improved (Read 2394 times)

safetysheriff · « **on:** December 07, 2005, 02:33:54 PM »

want to achieve a "cheap" re-chambering of a 'rifle' -- so to speak -- using an Ackley-Improved reamer without expensive barrel-setback costs?

Of All the terrible things to say: do it with a SSSsssssssaaaaaavvv :shock: :shock: by using the barrel nut to adjust your headspace dimension after cutting in the Ackley Improvement to the chamber........

think about it: a 'crush' fit of a factory mf'd, standard-caliber cartridge with the potential to use an Improved cartridge in the same chamber, just by adjusting the barrel/headspace with a gauge and that cheap SSSsssssaaaavvvv.......... 'rifle' design. (i just can't bring myself to say it!) it'll never be a Handi' that i think is a very good, practical rifle; but it will be "cheap"!

i'm becoming a daggoned' genius :eek: :eek:

(to be honest, this can't be an original idea; but it's an option that i never read on this forum before)

take care, all,

ss'

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2005, 03:08:12 PM »

I'm startin to wonder if the "barrel nut" is part of the rifle, or the one talking about it!!!!! :grin:

MSP Ret · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2005, 03:19:47 PM »

:oh: :yeah: :shock: !!! HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!!....<><.... :bye:

JPH45 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:25:02 PM »

So.... What, safteysheriff, is supposed to support the case head/body as you screw the Savage's barrel out of the reciever?

Turning out the barrel in the manner you suggest WILL leave an area of the case head/body unsupported. And while one may get away with this with low pressure cartridges like the 45ACP or 40 S&W, cartridges operating at pressures above 30,000 psi or so will simply blow the brass out at any unsupported area. What you suggest is at best a dangerous practice, at worst, it could cause loss of limb or life.

At the risk of being booted, would you please kindly be quite on matters which you obviously don't have any experience whatever?

There, I'm Ignoring you again.

nomosendero · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:44:22 PM »

Sounds like something that could be done once.

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2005, 04:52:53 PM »

Might be that no one has mentioned it 'cause this ain't the Savage board and Handi's ain't got no barrel nut.

But. since you bring it up, SS, tell us how often you have done headspace adjustments and on what, and how?

victorcharlie · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2005, 12:55:46 AM »

As you just can't bring yourself to say Savage...........and now that you appreciate the simple but functional design..........then try saying Stevens........maybe that'll come a little easier.......

safetysheriff · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2005, 11:52:58 AM »

Quote from: JPH45

So.... What, safteysheriff, is supposed to support the case head/body as you screw the Savage's barrel out of the reciever? Turning out the barrel in the manner you suggest WILL leave an area of the case head/body unsupported. And while one may get away with this with low pressure cartridges like the 45ACP or 40 S&W, cartridges operating at pressures above 30,000 psi or so will simply blow the brass out at any unsupported area. What you suggest is at best a dangerous practice, at worst, it could cause loss of limb or life.

At the risk of being booted, would you please kindly be quite on matters which you obviously don't have any experience whatever?

There, I'm Ignoring you again.

it's too bad you don't re-read the post i made above -- intended for the Handi' rifle forum actually....... i never said "screw the Savage's barrel out of the receiver"! where did that come from?

i stand by this post, which should have been put on the Handi'rifle forum.

leftovers'

safetysheriff · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2005, 02:50:40 PM »

Quote from: victorcharlie

As you just can't bring yourself to say Savage...........and now that you appreciate the simple but functional design..........then try saying Stevens........maybe that'll come a little easier.......

victorc'

i am going to go out on a limb, lest anyone on the Savage forum feel slighted or possibly even insulted.

i have shot one, brief 'competition' with a friend's Savage Tactical in .308 with the heavy 20" barrel. it was a tack-driving son-of-a-gun, with me pitted against a friend's grandson who was admittedly a great shot at the age of 16 or 17. while i was pleased with the accuracy, as is possible with many Savage rifles, i have never been a fan of button-rifled barrels nor of the Savage overall quality. that may sound like a contradiction, but i don't like their stock work, i don't like their pre-Accu-Trigger trigger group, and i find more to like -- generally -- about Remingtons and Rugers.

so i apologize that this wound up on this forum when it was moved from the NEF Handi' site. no insult was ever Really intended.

to each his own,

ss'

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2005, 09:40:29 AM »

SS, it's a simple question, and I don't understand why you are upset.

SS, tell us how often you have done headspace adjustments and on what, and how?

safetysheriff · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2005, 11:19:54 AM »

Quote from: Leftoverdj

SS, it's a simple question, and I don't understand why you are upset.

SS, tell us how often you have done headspace adjustments and on what, and how?

i'm not upset;
ss'

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2005, 03:56:10 PM »

Quote from: safetysheriff

Quote from: Leftoverdj
SS, it's a simple question, and I don't understand why you are upset.

SS, tell us how often you have done headspace adjustments and on what, and how?

i'm not upset;
ss'

And you are not answering, either.

Have you ever taken the barrel off a Savage? Any centerfire bolt action rifle? Ever rebarrel a rifle?

I kinda like to get my gunsmithing advice from people who have done it.

mag41vance · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2005, 04:06:24 PM »

It is nice to see this thread in the Savage section, since GB was kind enough to make space.
Savage rifles are kind of like NEF's, they need tweaking to get the most from them.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2005, 08:53:00 AM »

SS:

I thought I would post this here for you...it might help ...

Quote

Savage's ingenious method of achieving consistent close-tolerance headspace is often cited as the reason for the 110's reputation for accuracy. The key to the system is the heavy barrel nut just ahead of the receiver. After cutting the chamber to minimum dimensions the barrel is turned into the receiver which holds a headspace gauge. Once headspace is correct, the barrel nut is tightened, locking barrel and receiver into one rigid unit.

The system is effective and inexpensive, and no doubt does help ensure that Savage rifles hold chamber dimensions and headspace to tight tolerances. At the same time, though, a properly cut, minimum-tolerance chamber is just one link in the accuracy chain. Fortunately Savage makes the other links in the chain correctly as well.

Looks like it would work to me...but...I still would check with a good gunsmith before doing it...

Here's the entire article....http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_12_48/ai_93317493

Have a Great 1

Mac

safetysheriff · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2005, 09:20:01 AM »

Quote from: Leftoverdj

Quote from: safetysheriff
Quote from: Leftoverdj
SS, it's a simple question, and I don't understand why you are upset.

SS, tell us how often you have done headspace adjustments and on what, and how?

i'm not upset;
ss'

And you are not answering, either.

Have you ever taken the barrel off a Savage? Any centerfire bolt action rifle? Ever rebarrel a rifle?

I kinda like to get my gunsmithing advice from people who have done it.

leftovers'

i asked you a couple of questions now re: that ".280 ai" post on the NEF Handi' forum --- how many months ago? i never got an answer. and i haven't gotten one when i just brought it forward either. i think you 'stepped in it' and don't care to admit it. it was a very poor idea.

"how often" -- at least three times a week after dinner! including with the supplied gauges for the AI's that you didn't even know existed! will that do?

SS'

rickyp · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2005, 01:32:06 PM »

people lets all play nice, No personal attacks please

I do not want to have to lock or delete this topic

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2005, 02:41:48 PM »

Quote from: rickyp

people lets all play nice, No personal attacks please

I do not want to have to lock or delete this topic

Quite, right, Ricky!

I would still like to know how much personal experience SafetySheriff has at setting headspace.

I'd ask that of anyone offering advice on such a potentially danerous operation.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2005, 03:14:26 PM »

DJ:

Seems for those who want to fully swap out barrels or do improvements for these rifles...just need to pick up the correct headspace gauge and the wrench and barrel and have a go at it...of cource you'll have to have a good padded vise to do the work..but..there isn't a whole lot to do on it. ...Rechambering it by hand...well...I'm sure some have a-lot steadier hand than mine...but..I would be having a Smith do that work for me...but since the chamber is on the tight side..instead of the loose side..it probably would be much easier to achieve better results...

Mac

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2005, 03:43:05 PM »

I'll ask you the same, Mac. You ever taken the barrel off a Savage? Done a rechamber? Fitted and headspaced a barrel on any bolt action centerfire?

Nothing personal, but I like to know the qualifications of people giving advice.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2005, 05:06:35 PM »

Nope...but I watched it done 1 time...and I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express

This is why I said I would have a Smith do the reaming and go ahead and set the headspace at the sametime.....but..it is possible...and there is plenty of information available for doing this if you are so inclined to take it on...1 thing I can say for sure about it..when I watched the smith swap out a barrel on one..it didn't look that hard to....and it only took him about 20 minutes from start to finish to swap a barrel out and have it put back together ready to be test fired...and it functioned perfectly afterwards...Of course he's been doing these kind of things for 40 years too...so it was no big deal to him...

Mac

Slamfire · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2005, 06:44:34 PM »

I took the barrel off my old 110 when I sent it to be rebored. Puttin' it back was just as easy, as I used witness marks on the barrel and receiver. Of course, this was goin' from .243 to .260, and if you touch the chamber you ought to use a headspace gauge set. It ain't all that difficult. I'd think in the above case there'd be a problem indexin' the front sight, but if you don't have one, what would the problem be? You could use the Army method and have a reamer cut with the threaded end on the front, then turn the reamer from the front, through the barrel. When the bolt closes on the reamer, you're done. :wink:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2005, 08:12:07 AM »

DJ:

This might explain it a little better for you..http://www.savageshooters.net/Articles/BarrelSwap.html

Mac

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2005, 08:44:36 AM »

Mac, I already know how to change barrels and fit headspace. I've done it a good many times. I'm just deeply suspicious on internet pontifications since they often come from posters who have never done such a job and do not understand the details of doing it correctly.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2005, 06:14:28 AM »

DJ:

I would be more concerned with someone who wasn't mechanically inclined(but had the right tools and proper instructions) to start reaming out a chamber..than to start swapping out a barrel and setting the headspace on a Savage.It is a straight forward procedure and one that can be repeated...not so with the reaming aspect...you can be good with tools and still screw up completely to make your rifles chamber out of spec...and once that is done..it's done...the barrel you can adjust many different ways and still put it back into specs...

Mac

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2005, 09:17:25 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

DJ:

I would be more concerned with someone who wasn't mechanically inclined(but had the right tools and proper instructions) to start reaming out a chamber..than to start swapping out a barrel and setting the headspace on a Savage.It is a straight forward procedure and one that can be repeated...not so with the reaming aspect...you can be good with tools and still screw up completely to make your rifles chamber out of spec...and once that is done..it's done...the barrel you can adjust many different ways and still put it back into specs...

Mac

That would be a judgment better made by someone who has actually done the work. Lotta stuff seems easy when you have only read about it or watched an expert do one job. It's when you get your hands greasy and actually do the work that you find out how hard something can get.

safetysheriff · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:40:00 PM »

Quote from: Mac11700

DJ:

This might explain it a little better for you..http://www.savageshooters.net/Articles/BarrelSwap.html

Mac

Mac'

the cat is out of the bag :shock: you've done it this time, :eek: all you have to do now is mark that website, or put together a rendition of that simplistic operation, as a 'sticky' on this forum and discussion of that subject will be all but over for the rest of time! :wink: EveryBody will know how easy it's been -- the whole time -- to swap a factory Savage barrel out for a new one. (it's easier than the engine factory work we did when we swapped out intake manifolds on the old V-8's.....and that was a 45 minute job if things were tough!)

you realize, Mac' that we have a lot of our fun on these forums because we keep on getting new guys/gals that want to learn the ropes. when you spill your guts like you did that time you steal some of the thunder from some of our future postings on these sites.

although i disagree with using anything but a proper gauge for setting the headspace (because of those two Rugers i've mentioned elsewhere that were so Tightly Chambered!) i think that if you'll look at almost 300 people having checked out this posting already, you've done a lot of people a great service.

thanks for moderating this discussion with your documentation.

best regards,

ss'

Mac11700 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2005, 07:10:33 PM »

DJ:

Quote

That would be a judgment better made by someone who has actually done the work. Lotta stuff seems easy when you have only read about it or watched an expert do one job. It's when you get your hands greasy and actually do the work that you find out how hard something can get.

Say's who...you think I'm not capable of doing this simple task myself...when you know absolutely nothing about me or my mechanical skills.Who better to judge if I'm up to it or not...you?......

What a laugh that is....Let's see...a wrench..a padded vice..a set of gunsmith bits and holder..possible a rubber mallet...and a go-gauge and a no-go gauge...WOW...my 10 year old could do this with the proper instuctions...Your too much DJ...way too much....I appreciate the levity...I really and truely do...if and when I were to buy one of these nice rifles...it would be just to beable to do these kind of things with them...and while all of this bickering here really doesn't look very good to some of the folks here...it is just re-emphazing a simply fact that they have known all along...that their Savages are truely a versatile well thought out rifles built for us who love to tinker with our rifles...also I might add to this fact...they arechambered to very close tolerances...giving exceptional accuracy for so little a cost.

SS...I am a guest here on this forum...and if I have acted unrulely for those that frequent this side...I do apologize...I cannot moderate someone elses forum for them...and wouldn't even try...These guys already know about this stuff I am quite sure...they have been singing the praises on these bolt guns for a very long time...without much respect from us single shot shooters...and for that I am sorry...Most folks wouldn't believe it coming from me...but if and when I ever deciede to go with another bolt gun...a Savage will be the one I choose...because of this capability...it opens the door to some fun experimenting... :wink:

Mac

Leftoverdj · « **Reply #27 on:** December 13, 2005, 06:08:36 AM »

Mac, you are the best judge of your own competence. and I would never have implied that you should not attempt to change barrels on a Savage.

My point is, and always has been, that one should not tell others that a project is "easy" when one has not done it. Reading about doing something is much easier than actually doing it, and secondhand information should be properly acknowleged as such and attributed.

btw, having done a bit of barrel work, I would strongly suggest that you not attempt to remove a barrel, particularly not from a secondhand rifle of some age, without a proper barrel vise. It is quite possible to damage the action fighting a stubborn barrel. Once you have removed and replaced the nut for the first time, and know that the nut is properly torqued and that the threads have not corroded, the padded vise might be adequate.

Slamfire · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2005, 02:12:56 PM »

I once had a junk Type 38 Arisaka. The chamber was very rusty, and if you fired a round in that rifle, the brass would bulge on one side. I also had a 6.5-.257 reamer set I'd picked up at a gun show. It had replaceable pilots. I chucked up the reamer in a brest drill and turned away until the bolt would just close on a factory round. Nothin' much came out of the chamber except rusty powder, now shavings of any kind. I wasn't able to get the barrel out of the receiver though and junked the whole barreled assembly. I saved everything I could get off however.
Eventually I found a carbine that shot great, but with a ground mum and mismatched numbers, took the rifle and reamer to the local shop and had it rechambered by the smith. It worked great and I took several meat elk with it.