280 AI Reaming

[marv]

Welcome back Oldoc  Been missing you! get all the Honet do's done,
and get on the Computer. Marv.

[safetysheriff]

Mitch,

On a Handi, if I was hell-bent on making an AI' out of it (if the original chambering dimensions necessitated all this...) I'd find a good smith that would remove .030 off the back of the barrel/chamber of the Handi, install a .060 over-sized pivot pin in the frame, with the bearing surface of the underlug/ejector housing being redone Properly to allow barrel setback with that oversized pin.    That .030 set back will be enough to allow a good 'smith to Carefully rechamber to an AI' that will fire factory ammunition as well.    He's just going to have to be intelligent while working with that AI' reamer.  

Can we have a price estimate here?

Face off barrel
Redo ejector
Check and possibly rework locking bolt fit
Remove hinge pin and ream hole
Fabricate hinge pin and harden
Install new hinge pin
Recut radius on barrel lug
Chamber and test fire

Seems kinda silly when NEF will fit a 7-08 barrel that can be easily rechambered to .280 AI. Several hundred dollars worth of silly.

leftover'

i asked you once before, and never got an answer.....

would you really expect someone to forego a 26"-barreled .280 Rem' just to do something that "seems kinda silly" like 'Improving' a 22" barreled Handi' from a 7mm-08?    what on earth would be the reason for such a machination?

'how often' have you made such recommendations and on what other forums and firearms have you done so?  

inquiring minds want to know.

SS'

[nomosendero]

I think that I may get an Encore 280AI from the custom shop as it is
factory & for a stronger receiver.

One possibility for those who are going to try this is a 7mmJRS. The shoulder is a little forward & could be done without a barrel setback, I
think. The downside is you would not have the possibilities of factory 280 fodder.

[Fred M]

If you wanted a 280AI Handi bad enough you could use a standard new factory round and use is for a reaming gage to ream the AI chamber until the round is flush with the barrel face. Providing the standard chamber has not got a lot of head space, at least no more than 0.004"

Then use new brass and fire form with Cream of wheat and lube the cases on the outside. Fire form with 25-26% of 700X Shotgun powder of the case water volume in grains and a tightly packed case cream of wheat with a Crisco plug. Use the Crisco on your finger to lube the case. No Bullets of course.

I would have a gun smith do the job, and he can take the measurements too and check the chamber and throat with a bore scope.

This will give you a perfectly fitted case. But I would not use factory ammo in this chamber since some factory ammo could be sloppy. This then is strictly a wildcat. Myself I have never seen any sense in using standard ammo in an AI chamber. Never lost mine(AI or Imp ammo) in the woods ever.

This method is my standard procedure for fire forming wild cats,

[Leftoverdj]

If you wanted a 280AI Handi bad enough you could use a standard new factory round and use is for a reaming gage to ream the AI chamber until the round is flush with the barrel face. Providing the standard chamber has not got a lot of head space, at least no more than 0.004"

Then use new brass and fire form with Cream of wheat and lube the cases on the outside. Fire form with 25-26% of 700X Shotgun powder of the case water volume in grains and a tightly packed case cream of wheat with a Crisco plug. Use the Crisco on your finger to lube the case. No Bullets of course.

I would have a gun smith do the job, and he can take the measurements too and check the chamber and throat with a bore scope.

This will give you a perfectly fitted case. But I would not use factory ammo in this chamber since some factory ammo could be sloppy. This then is strictly a wildcat. Myself I have never seen any sense in using standard ammo in an AI chamber. Never lost mine in the woods ever.

This method is my standard procedure for fire forming wild cats,

Fred, either a standard gauge or an unfired .280 case is going to measure the existing chamber, and won't tell you a thing about the AI chamber until you have already gone too deep. Another complication is that the blow of the firing pin will drive a standard case several thous deeper into an AI chamber because it only has a knife edge of support. This plus any existing headspace adds together to create excessive headspace. Fireforming by your method will cause case stretching and thinning in such a rifle. Eventual case head separation becomes much more likely.

You are correct that a .280 AI reamer can used to create a wildcat so similar to the .280 AI that AI dies and data can be used with it, but factory ammo should never be fired in it. and brass for it should be fireformed using the false shoulder method. Such a rifle should be restamped something other than .280 AI.

[Fred M]

Leftoverdj.
The method I described has been done to a Rem Pump Game Master. The situation is almost like the Handi only a bit more tricky.

I don't wan't to quote a number of cases I have fire formed with the methode I posted above. This method  has produced nothing but perfect cases cluding 280 AI, 280 RCBS, 243AI, 30 Gibbs , 25 Hunter,  6 ppc,  340Wby and 300 Wby from 300 H&H and 375 H&H. Must be in the thousands???. I am still alive and have never blown up a gun and enjoyed extreamly long case life

When using part of the neck and move the shouder forward like the famos 30-30 AI and all the Gibbs cartriges you don't suppose you stretch the cases where the cases are the thinnest.  Again by lubing the case and fire for with a filler you stretch the whole case not just the neck and the shoulder if the case clings to the chamber wall.

Of course the cases will stretch some, that is the idea of the Crisco lube.
The case will not cling to the chamber walls and expand in both direction and completly fills the chamber and there wont be a head space problem.

Just try it. Just fire an empty case with the primer only in an AI chamber I can assure you it will go bang.

If the fireing pin drives the case forward some, the inert filler will drive the case back to the lock up if the case is lubed, from then on it will expand in all directions and fills the chamber. That is all there is to it.

In a Mauser rifle with the big claw extractor you can hold a 30-06 case against the bolt face and fire form a Gibbs with my method, I have done that. It takes perhaps an extra grain or two of powder. Do you stretch the cases, you bet. Not a good wild cat because if the fire forming and annealing is not done right you get case separations.

I have a complete write up about my fire forming method on my web site.
Hundreds of shooters are using it. I know because I get e-mail form all over the world.

I am not going to get into another argument, and I am not posting anything that is dangerous. Go and talk to a good gunsmith take your 280 rifle there and find out.  If you want to fire form with bullets then you should in this case put on a false shoulder or jam a bullet into the lands.
Neither way is as good as what I have described above.

I said it before and I will say it one more time, I am not in favore of Imps in a Handi rifle. But that does not mean you can't have one you just have to forget about long case life.

[safetysheriff]

Leftoverdj.
The method I described has been done to a Rem Pump Game Master. The situation is almost like the Handi only a bit more tricky.

Fred'

how cold is it up there now?   you guys keep a pushin' all that pneumonia weather down here; and it's Rough when it comes across the Great Lakes.  In Chardon, Ohio they've had over 5 feet of snow already this year.   that's actually a good amount around here.      .......not very hospitable, Fred.

I suspect, FWIW, that if the ejector (i have that style of Handi's) didn't hold the cartridge against the standing breech as it does, that we'd see some case-head separations in these Handi's ....possibly because of the firing pin pushing the cartridges forward in these chambers when they've been Improved and then fired with standard cartridges in them.   it's important to note that it may come out differently in the extractor-type of Handi's they're supposedly making now. (i haven't seen one yet but hear they're out there.)

Fred, i have not had the problems with either my .223's nor with the .30-06 I had 'til this past summer that some of the guys claim.   The throats are reasonable on my rifles, the ejectors work well if i don't seat the bullets (accidentally) too far out in the brass causing them to catch the rifling, etc.etc.   i hope i never have to eat these words, but i've been very blessed 'til now with the fun these rifles have been.   but i can see where some of the other guys might/could have problems with standard, rimless brass -- maybe -- in an Ackley Improved Handi'.

take care, and Merry Christmas,

ss'

[Fred M]

Safety Sheriff

I said

This will give you a perfectly fitted case. But I would not use factory ammo in this chamber since some factory ammo could be sloppy. This then is strictly a wildcat. Myself I have never seen any sense in using standard ammo in an AI chamber. Never lost mine(AI or Imp ammo) in the woods ever.

Fred'
how cold is it up there now? you guys keep a pushin' all that pneumonia weather down here; and it's Rough when it comes across the Great Lakes. In Chardon, Ohio they've had over 5 feet of snow already this year. that's actually a good amount around here. .......not very hospitable, Fred.

We been in the deep freeze for some tome time  and the geese are gone south. :cry:  :cry:  :cry: I packed up my goose hunting camp on the weekend. Now I am lost and don't know what to do with myself.

I said it before and I will say it one more time, I am not in favor of Imps in a Handi rifle. But that does not mean you can't have one.[/b

].

If you use inert filler and lube the case and the firing pin will fire the C.O.W. load you will get a perfectly formed case in an Imp Chamber.
There won't be head space and you need to address head space with the dies. Two thou for the Handi and zero for a bolt gun.

Just for your and anybody elses info. My 257 Roberts was chambered using new factory brass as a reaming gage. Do you know why we did this? Do I have a max or min chamber, who cares it works fine with factory brass. It is a perfect chamber. Even with my home made brass made from 270 Win brass.

 If you have the tools you can do a lot with brass. Like 243AI with a fitted and long neck made from 06 brass. For the 25-06 I use 30-06 brass, this makes for thicker neck walls and allows me to outside neck ream to minimal radial neck clearance and perfect concentricity. My Ruger #1 likes this stuff and shoots accordingly.

[Mac11700]

Good stuff Fred...I'll be asking for your advice with one early next year as soon as Wayne does his majic on it...it will be a 25 cal overbore for sure...If all works out...I'll have a custom set of dies cut from the same PTG reamer as the chamber...and then we'll be ready to rock and roll:wink:

Mac

[Fred M]

Mac.
The chamber reamer is only good for the In-line Seating die. I have several converted Hornady sliding sleave dies, with the micrometer seating stem, the sleave is very easy to make using the chamber reamer and the Hornady New Horizon die body is very resonable.

But for a sizing die you need to go to Neil Jones and send him a few fired cases, His dies features the shoulder bump, neck sizing bushing and the case body gets a 0.001 radial clearance, man these dies work slick.

Your 25-06 better be a tack driver before you do the conversion.

[Mac11700]

I'm talking with Forster on the dies Fred..and if they won't...then I'll go with a Wilson Arbor press set up with the chamber type bullet seater..I thought about Hornady's and my L&L press..but I want the full case supported in place..not just the bullet and so I will have to kick it up a notch or 2 precision wise..I have no-doubts about my 25-06 barrel accuracy level...my scope choice was for lack of mental fortitude in a weak moment.. and will be replace with a more fitting model..This rifle will become dedicated to the action and stock...so it will get the full treatment of improvement tricks including the ejector slot  fix too... and I have to work out the pillar bedding on my long varmint forearm from Gunstocks Inc...It should be interesting...from more than 1 stand point.....and with a few more tricks not normally discussed much to try out on it as well. :wink:

Mac

[Leftoverdj]

Just for your and anybody elses info. My 257 Roberts was chambered using new factory brass as a reaming gage. Do you know why we did this? Do I have a max or min chamber, who cares it works fine with factory brass. It is a perfect chamber.

Reason we have gauges is that factory brass varies.

I've headspaced using a new case, but I sure didn't claim it gave me the perfect chamber, just a workable one.

[Fred M]

Mac.
I guess you did not understand what I meant. The Hornady Horizon conversion takes in the whole cartridge case in the siding sleave not just the bullet like the factory die. You need the chamber reamer to ream the sleave.

The Die body Inside is also trued for a perfect fit with the sleave. This is done on a lathe, but it is very simple to do. I have a set up like this for my HBR 25Hunter  and the 7SSAI it produces perfect concentric bullet seating, no runout. I designed the die conversion and have a drawing.

Yes Wilson and forester dies are very good. I like the Wilson Dies I have in 6ppc and 30br. These work on an arbor press.
 
Leftoverdj

Since you seam to think my 257 chamber is bush league rather than perfect I will not further comment on it. There is a very logic reason for doing what we did.

Since you know all about how to chamber I let you figure it out for yourself and tell me why you would use a factory new case as a gage when you have a proper chambering gage available?

Why the nit picking? I spend good money on a match grade cut rifled bore and then put in a workable bush league chamber. What I am missing?

[Leftoverdj]

I dunno why you did that, Fred, but I got plenty of room to learn.  I know that if I have a gauge I use it so I can be reasonably sure that any standard cases will work safely, and see no reason to introduce an unknown. When I do use a case. I chamber a bit tight because I can deepen a chamber a lot easier than I can shorten it. Ime, factory cases can vary several thous.

You choose to do it your way, and I'm interested in learning why?

[JPH45]

I don't get it, Can anyone in this tell me what a real world 280 AI really gives over a 280 Remington? Is the difference merely dead or will it be really sincerely dead? Personally, I think you guys are starting to argue over the flyspecks in the horsecrap, and turning a once good site into one not worth visiting.

[Fred M]

Leftoverdj

Since you ask I will tell you.
 
1. So there is no mistake we are talking strictly about the Handi rifle and its action.

A chamber gage has build in headspace 4-5 Thou. The Handi action with a high power load will spring 2-3 thou. You add these two together and your cases will stretch 8 thou. Not good for case life.

By using a new case for a gage I can head space zero or flush with the back of the barrel where the action will close without slamming. New cases are then sized with no more than 1- 2 thou head space for trouble free latch engagement.

If you use a standard 257R sizing die and a .125" shell holder you will set the shoulder back 3-4 thou not good for the Handi either. I use Redding competition shell holders in +.002 to +.010" to get the head space I want. I also have shell holders that are less than .125" down to .122"

Since I hand load and never use factory ammo I really don't care if factory ammo is too tight, it wont be loose for sure. Between the 25-06, the 223 and the 257 Roberts Handi's I have fired over 600 rounds of high velocity ammo and have a pretty good idea what to expect from a Handi.

The 257 Roberts is about as good as you can get with an up to snuff load.
And that my friend is what I am after, the best accuracy I can get and as you can see I have studied the goings on very carefully.

JPH45

Can anyone in this tell me what a real world 280 AI really gives over a 280 Remington?

.

A 280 AI is equal to a 7mm REm Mag with any bullet up to 145gr. The 280AI is perhaps one of the best liked wildcats ever. Whether you agree with that or not, is not important. Facts have a way to speak for them self.

No I would not convert a Handi 280 to a 280AI, but some do and did and we were talking about the feasibility of doing just that.

Personally, I think you guys are starting to argue over the flyspecks in the horsecrap, and turning a once good site into one not worth visiting.

I am very sorry that you feel that way, perhaps it is time for a disappearing act.

[Mac11700]

I don't get it, Can anyone in this tell me what a real world 280 AI really gives over a 280 Remington? Is the difference merely dead or will it be really sincerely dead? Personally, I think you guys are starting to argue over the flyspecks in the horsecrap, and turning a once good site into one not worth visiting.

JPH45:...Sorry you feel this way...that it seems like a site not worth visiting...but the veiw count on this thread says otherwise....and while you may not find it a worthy discussion...many others think otherwise and are interested in modifying their Handi's...

As to your question..Is the difference merely dead or will it be really sincerely dead?...the difference is substantial to those who want to do this for whatever reason...and since everyone acting like a gentleman on this..and mearly questioning which would be the best way of doing something..and if you really don't want to do the conversion...that's fine..no problem..but they have a right to discuss it here..wither you can see any benifit to it or not...just as you have a right to voice your opinion on the subject matter...because there is a-lot to be learned from a good discussion like this...the pro's and the con's...  for those who are interested...

Mac

[quickdtoo]

My thoughts exactly, Mac!! As long as someone learns a little, and everyone if being nice, it's a good thing, no harm done and no reason for anyone to be leaving. :wink:

[Mac11700]

Mac.
I guess you did not understand what I meant. The Hornady Horizon conversion takes in the whole cartridge case in the siding sleave not just the bullet like the factory die. You need the chamber reamer to ream the sleave.

I didn't realize that Fred...PM me the paticulars on this set up...I have a couple of the Hornady micrometer stems laying around...and this looks like a nice way to put them to use...Could this also be for  the Forster's full capture sleave too?

Thanks...

Mac

[.308]

 turning a once good site into one not worth visiting.

I surely agree with that statement. Is it possible others do???

perhaps it is time for a disappearing act.

Who are you saying should disappear? Were you talking about yourself? Or are you trying to get someone to leave that disagrees with you?

since everyone acting like a gentleman on this..

New leaf, huh. Let's see how long this lasts. Sounds like sarcasm to me. Or am I beginning to sound sarcastic?  :eek:  Speaking of view counts, this tread started 4/23/05 had about 30-35 replies, didn't have any activity from 4/28/05 until 12/09/05 and the view count is now 757 as I write. The .30-30AI thread started 12/04/05 and ended on 12/10/05 had 87 views and 1571 views last count.

My thoughts exactly, Mac!!

That's no surprise, sir.

Now like you seem to agree we can all enter our opinions, right??? Well here's one for you. Everytime someone leaves GBO there goes a potential, customer or sponsor, and the one that get hurt most is G/B, in the wallet. I patronize G/B's sponsors. Why do you three guys keep 'peeing in the pool'?

 Looks like the commentators are back. Let's see if anything actually get's done. I completed another project on my Handi yesterday, and I won’t give you guys the pleasure of commenting on it. All it would be is your opinions, none of you have any real experience with what I’ve done or we’d have heard of it before now.

Take care all.

[Leftoverdj]

Fred, you are actually doing what you are talking about and putting your time and money into your theories. I respect you for that, even when I do not agree with those theories. Actual experience is always to be respected.

Much of our differences stem from our goals. You are willing to sacrifice much for a chance of improved accuracy. I'm perfectly happy to build inch rifles that don't need special ammo, and I'll settle for less than that from a Handi.

I still disgree with using a factory case when gauges are at hand. Your results can vary by 5-6 thous simply by which case you use. That's why the gauges have an allowance built in. You can negate that allowance if you choose by using the gauge to ream short by whatever amount you choose. Done that way, your chamber is not subject to the vagaries of factory tolerances involved in using a case.


.308, JPH I share your frustration to some degree, but this site has many threads. This one has gotten a bit technical, but, at least, it is not meanspirited.

[Mac11700]

 turning a once good site into one not worth visiting.

I surely agree with that statement. Is it possible others do???
 

perhaps it is time for a disappearing act.

Who are you saying should disappear? Were you talking about yourself? Or are you trying to get someone to leave that disagrees with you?
 

since everyone acting like a gentleman on this..

New leaf, huh. Let's see how long this lasts. Sounds like sarcasm to me. Or am I beginning to sound sarcastic?  :eek:  Speaking of view counts, this tread started 4/23/05 had about 30-35 replies, didn't have any activity from 4/28/05 until 12/09/05 and the view count is now 757 as I write. The .30-30AI thread started 12/04/05 and ended on 12/10/05 had 87 views and 1571 views last count.  
 

My thoughts exactly, Mac!!

That's no surprise, sir.  
 
Now like you seem to agree we can all enter our opinions, right??? Well here's one for you. Everytime someone leaves GBO there goes a potential, customer or sponsor, and the one that get hurt most is G/B, in the wallet. I patronize G/B's sponsors. Why do you three guys keep 'peeing in the pool'?
 
 Looks like the commentators are back. Let's see if anything actually get's done. I completed another project on my Handi yesterday, and I won’t give you guys the pleasure of commenting on it. All it would be is your opinions, none of you have any real experience with what I’ve done or we’d have heard of it before now.
 
Take care all.

 
3o8:
 
What sarcasm have I given..everyone is acting like gentlemen on this...if you took what I said wrong..I can't help that..Nothing I said was said sarcastically.
 
My comments on the view count wasn't about any other thread started here at GBO..it was about this one and the views recently...nothing else..it wasn't meant as a comparision to any 30-30 AI thread started...
 
I normally don't go looking to take a persons comments out of context...so...I'll ask for clarification from you on this statement of yours...."Now like you seem to agree we can all enter our opinions, right???...Exactly what are you implying here...I have always been the one who has said anyone is allowed to make comments here...on any thread on this forum...are you implying differently?
 

Everytime someone leaves GBO there goes a potential, customer or sponsor, and the one that get hurt most is G/B, in the wallet. I patronize G/B's sponsors. Why do you three guys keep 'peeing in the pool'?

 
Do you not think Bill knows what is being said here...He knows,so why don't you PM him and discuss your " feelings " about it.. A-lot of us also patronize the sponsors of this site...and as far as any of them leaving because of 1 thread would be rather strange...since they have the potential to get to their target audience from anywhere on this site...and the more folks who log on and see them for whatever reason is a potential customer
 

Why do you three guys keep 'peeing in the pool'?
 
 Looks like the commentators are back. Let's see if anything actually get's done. I completed another project on my Handi yesterday, and I won’t give you guys the pleasure of commenting on it. All it would be is your opinions, none of you have any real experience with what I’ve done or we’d have heard of it before now.

 
From your comments here...it would seem that you want to be able to say whatever you want to say...but no-one else should be able to.....It seemsyou and others feel,that if a person hasn't loaded for a Improved cartridge in a Handi...that they don't know what they are talking about...Sorry...it doesn't work that way...it doesn't matter if that persons working knowledge of the cartridge comes from loading for it's in a Handi..a Winchester..a Marlin..a Savage..a T/C or Encore...if they know how to reload..and have loaded the cartridge before...that person has a working knowledge of that cartridge...That person...as well as the individual who has never even seen a Improved cartridge nor if they have even reloaded ...has a right to voice their opinions on this forum...and on any other thread posted here...I'm sorry you feel this way...but...you...or a few others are not going to put Qualifiers on any subject matter here...and wither you want to discuss your projects or not for this reason...is your choice and yours alone....Some folks just come here to read what's been  posted...and never comment on a single one...and...that is their choice...because all are welcome here as long as they follow the rules set forth by GBO management...One other thing...I don't "pee" in anyones pool(figuratively speaking...or any other way)...and what I do here as moderator...is done under the very watchfull eyes of Greybeard...if I have a problem..I talk to him about it...just like I have on numerous occassions..it's after all his site..and he has already stated his views on the subject...

Mac

[quickdtoo]

While I'm pretty much one to stay out of the verbal sparring that seems prevelent in this thread, I'd like to enlighted a few of those that like to push the envelope as far as what they think is acceptable and isn't. A couple of points from the GBO Terms of Use that a couple posters in this thread seem to ignore....

Equality among members, at GBO we feel that all members are equal, and each and every one of you contribute in your own way to make GBO what it is. We also understand that each of our members have their own ideas, beliefs and opinions, and we respect that. We ask that every member of GBO always remember that we are all unique and we all have our own ideas, beliefs, and opinions and respect those of your fellow members as much as you would have them respect yours. Now if that is none and you feel as though you need not respect the opinions of your fellow members, I expect you will not be staying around here for very long.

 

Baiting Members, GBO has a zero tolerance policy for members who try to bait other members into violating the rules and "Terms of Use" of the GBO site. Those who bait other members while themselves trying to stay within the letter of the rules are in fact in "violation of the spirit of the rules". As such the member baiting another member is subject to the same actions by Moderators or Administrators as the baited member should the member then violate site rules in retaliation or in response to the baiting. This rule applies to all members of GBO regardless of membership status or rank.

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/gbo/gbo-tos.php

[hellacatcher]

I know I don't have a dog in this hunt and I am probably the least knowable person here-------but I got to go with 308 this has gone on to long. It is almost like everybody has to has the last word in a no winner somebody please let it go.

[jeff223]

all i want to say is this is another   GOOD READ  for sure

dont know if this ones any better than the 30-30ai rechamber topic but its close :-D

[JPH45]

What is ridiculous to me is that the whole rimless cartridge AI question has a very simple solution....have a headspace guage made. Anyone with the ability to grind a reamer can surely grind a headspace guage. Even if adding a special made guage doubles the cost of the rechamber for each individual, you're still talking $30.00 bucks for the task. Not bank breaking, and the solution ain't rocket science either.

I'm well aware that the 280AI performs on a par with the 7MM Rem Mag, but the 280 Remington ain't no slouch itself. At any reasonable game taking distance, what real difference is there? I'll assure you the trajectory ain't enough flatter to make the difference between a hit or miss.

I ain't against anyone doing any rechamber to any gun they want. It's their rechamber, their gun, their shoulder. But what purpose has been served by all the peein' contest about how to fireform a case? Once again, this ain't rocket science. No matter how you slice it, DJ is right, the sinlge best method to fireform is by using a false shoulder. But, in a proper AI chamber (AI for Ackley Improved) there is no need for a false shoulder, the origin of the shoulder/neck is not moved. The shoulder angle is changed and the case body taper is straighted. That was the beauty of PO's idea, a wildcat that didn't need special forming to create the case. Simply fire a factory round and walla, instant wildcat case. Go read what PO says on this, and you will see why this is such a silly thread.

As to controlling the headspace, a case fired in an AI chamber could be used, but it would be far better if the case came form a chamber cut by the reamer you are going to use, otherwise where are you??? So.....either cut two chambers or have a guage made. It is a simple as that.

Now for the real question......How many answered Mitch's original question..., How many would be interested in doing a 280 AI? This whole thread is a waste of cyberspace without there being more than one person interested to the point of putting their money where their mouth is to get a 280 AI reamer. I'm sure Mitch knows enough to be able to cut his own chamber and not get into trouble. Does he have anyone else willing to jump off the bridge with him?

[Fred M]

JPH45

What is ridiculous to me is that the whole rimless cartridge AI question has a very simple solution....have a headspace gage made.

Tell me what you would use for a length that would suit a Handi or several. A reamer gage is only good if you can set the barrel back  2-3 threads. You obviously have not followed what has been said. Leftover dj said you can chamber short, how short, so what is the gage good for? With a fired 280 case or a new one you will at least know how deep to chamber.

I'm well aware that the 280AI performs on a par with the 7MM Rem Mag, but the 280 Remington ain't no slouch itself. At any reasonable game taking distance, what real difference is there? I'll assure you the trajectory ain't enough flatter to make the difference between a hit or miss.

You obviously have never compared a 280 to a standard 280.  What you are saying is why bother with a 7mmSTW or the 257 Banshee when a 7x57 will get the job done. But for any one shooting deer in the woods at 25yrds with mini balls the whole concept of long-range flat shooting rifles is strictly taboo.

No matter how you slice it, DJ is right, the sinlge best method to fireform is by using a false shoulder. But, in a proper AI chamber (AI for Ackley Improved) there is no need for a false shoulder, the origin of the shoulder/neck is not moved.

For some one who never fire formed a 280 AI in A Handi, how would you know? I do not need to slice it, there are many ways to Rome. Besides I don’t know how many 280AI chambers DJ has cut in Handi’s to opinion the use of a reamer gage. We are still talking about Handi’s  and how would you get a proper AI chamber.

As to controlling the headspace, a case fired in an AI chamber could be used, but it would be far better if the case came form a chamber cut by the reamer you are going to use, otherwise where are you??? So.....either cut two chambers or have a guage made. It is a simple as that

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I am glad you are not my gunsmith; your simple solution is based on what? Definitely not on chambering a Handi.

This whole thread is a waste of cyberspace without there being more than one person interested to the point of putting their money where their mouth is to get a 280 AI reamer. I'm sure Mitch knows enough to be able to cut his own chamber and not get into trouble. Does he have anyone else willing to jump off the bridge with him?

This is an outrages statement, why are you wasting your time to come and read. You are wellcome to do so.
850 visits tells me this thread must be of some interest. Besides it is worthwhile even if only one person is interested in a 280AI. So why mar the thread with your negativity.

The statement I made about a disappearing act refers to me; I thought it was obvious since I wrote the post. My upbringing and social behavior would never allow me to tell some body to disappear.
But in a mind that is inundated with arrogance and militancy such an interpretation is possible.

Have a merry CHRISTmas and a happy new year. I am off the line. And try a 280 AI in the new year you never know you may like it. It is a fun gun to say the least.

[quickdtoo]

Fred, just thinking out loud here.....how bout cutting a .280AI chamber in a 7mm-08 Handi barrel??? I did a little measuring and it appears it would clean it up to my untrained eye. Probably wouldn't be the best choice in a 22" barrel, though. :cry: