Realistic handgun hunitng questions.

[jeager106]

Hi fellas. I just want some opinions here if you would please.
I'm not trying to stir arguments, discussions are fine though.
I have Smith revolvers in .357 mag., .45 acp., .44 spl., .44 mag. all with 6 or 6.5 inch barrels, issued factory all the way. No tune ups, no special sights and there ain't no way I'm putting a scope on one of these older prestine, pinned barrel, recessed, chamber Smiths.
In fact the .44 spl is NIB unfired and I'm having a hard time working up the courage to get 'er dirty.
All these are capable of 3" and better, much better in fact, from the bench at 25 yards.
I have yet to try any at 50 yards or further.
The M-29 "S" series N frame will shoot factory 240 grain loads into 1.5" at 25 and I'm sure will shoot much better than my abilities.
I know any of these calibers is capable of taking deer sized game as far as I can hit one except the .357 which is a little on the light side I think for deer.
Still the .357 should be o.k. at 25 or 30 yards.
The big question is for you experienced handgun hunters.
I'm a very experienced at combat/defensive pistol shooting, not hunting.
My experience with handguns is limited to 50 yards and less with most shooting being done at 25, 12, and 7 yards.
For you hunters that regularly shoot at 50 and more yards what is the practical limit for taking deer with an adequate caliber with open sights?
Given the necessary practice of course.
[/i]

[Mikey]

jaeger106:  Howdy.  All the revolvers you listed are more than capable of 3" at 25 yds.  Combat and defensive shooting really does not prepare you well for handgun hunting, where you need to concentrate on your sight picture and take a steady hold.  Most handgun hunting shots are from single action, regarless of the revolver type, whereas most combat/defensive shooting is from double action (at least that is my experience).

If you do not reload then the heaviest load for whitetail available commercially for the 357 is the 180 gn and that will work on whitetail out to 50 yds from a 6-6.5" revolver if you can place it right (operational phrase here).  The practical limit for whitetail with the 357 and open sights would be 50 m for me; for the M29 that groups 1.5" at 25m, if I can get a good sight picture I will go for 100m but most likely only 50m unless conditions are perfect.....

As for your 44 spl and your 45 acp - with the 357 and the 44 magunum I would not use the 44 spl or the 45 for hunting.  If you don't want to get them dirty, don't but you will be missing a lot of shooting fun with either.  If you like the S&Ws and it sounds like you do, there is a new Thunder Ranch M24 available in the 4" tapered barrel that really makes me lonesome for another revolver.  

Hey, shoot'em up and have fun - all you have to do is clean them and then start again.  JMHO.  Mikey.

[Questor]

For iron sights, 50 yards is about the practical limit for most people, and only if you have good light. A lot depends on the conditions you're hunting under. I wouldn't think of using open sights in the dark forests I hunt in- The sights just disappear in the dim light. For me, and what I recommend, is to use a low power scope.

If you expect distances beyond 50 yards you really will need to be an exceptional shot to make reliable hits on game unless you use a scope.

The only way to tell for sure is to set up an 8-inch target and shoot at it from field positions in dim light. If you can't hit it every time, then you've exceeded your limit.

One word of warning: With the rising popularity of handgun hunting one often reads in magazines about shots at distances that are at best unethical. I just read an old article by the late Finn Agaard about a deer hunt he had with a scoped 44 magnum revolver. He was trying to shoot mule deer at over 200 yards! He at least had the sense to write that he missed several times and it took him several tries in a game rich area before he badly hit, then found and killed a deer. Don't be gulled by this nonsense. A 44 magnum is a 100 yard cartridge. Beyond that the trajectory is a huge factor.  The sort of nonsense we frequently see in handgun hunting articles are not so much information as bragging.

In handgun hunting, as in rifle hunting, the telescopic sight is the best thing that has ever happened to game conservation.

[Larry Gibson]

Hi fellas. I just want some opinions here if you would please.......For you hunters that regularly shoot at 50 and more yards what is the practical limit for taking deer with an adequate caliber with open sights?
Given the necessary practice of course.
[/i]

Good advise from the previous posts especially Questers about hitting the 8" target every time. THAT establishes YOUR maximum range. It really doesn't matter what anyone else does. Also the truth be know around 50 yards IS the practical maximum for most hunters with handguns such as yours. We read a lot about "long range" deer shooting these days, both with handgun and rifle. Numerous studies have proven time and again that 90+ % of all big game are shot on the short side of 200 yards with 70-80% of those shot under 100 yards. Yet all we see are articles extolling god awful magnums for "flat trajectories" to shoot little deer "way out there".

It is the same with handgun hunting. I prefer to hunt deer with handguns using iron sights and mostly 6 to 7 1/2" barrels. While it's fun to shoot rocks and beer/soda cans out to 100 yards with them and have the confidence I "could" kill a deer out to 100 yards the truth is I've only killed one deer past 25 yards with a handgun and it was about 40 or so paces away.  Caveat; I don't go out into the wide open spaces to hunt deer with a handgun, I use a rifle. If I'm hunting with the handgun I go where the ranges will be short and within the limitations of myself and the handgun/cartridge I'm using.

Larry Gibson

[Redhawk1]

To be honest, I don't hunt with open sights on a handgun, I much prefer a red-dot or scope. I like the idea of a 100 yard shot if it presents itself.    My only hunting gun with open sights is my 4 inch 500 Mag which I use as my back up gun.

[PaulS]

A couple of personal opinions here.
Using Standard ammo from these guns here is the order of preference that I would place them in:

44 Mag (because it is a good hunting handgun)
357 Mag (because it penetrates farther than the ones below)
45 ACP (230 grain at 890fps)
44 Spl (240 grain at 850fps)

It is my opinion that only the Magnums are adequate for hunting purposes. The others are good for self defense but don't have the necessary penetration for hunting deer size game. The 357 Mag is only adequate at close range (within 50 yards) and the 44 mag is good to 75 to 100 yards depending on the shooter. I am not talking about shooting in the head or neck - I am talking about shooting into the vital organs of game.
A 22 rimfire magnum will kill a deer when placed in the temple or eye of the deer but it will not kill when placed into the vital areas of the heart and lung area. A shoulder bone will stop or redirect the bullet of a 22 and probably the 44 special and 45 ACP limiting the ability to reach the heart and lungs. (remember this is my opinion - and I freely admit that I have not shot a deer with either of these rounds.)
I do not use the energy figures of bullets to decide whether it is good for hunting or not because that is a poor gauge of effectiveness. An arrow kills because it penetrates to the heart and lungs and cuts the organs to pieces - especially if the animal runs with the arrow seated. A bullet has two things that it can do to cause death. It can cut holes in organs and blood vessels that cause the animal to bleed to death or it can sever nerve tissues that keep the heart and lungs working. The most effective way for MOST people to hunt is to shoot into the largest target available - the heart - lung shot. This means you have to be able to hold all your rounds on a 6 to 8 inch target at the longest range you will be hunting. I know many shooters who can't do that at 25 yards.  If you can hold all your shots at 50 yards in a 6 to 8 inch circle then you can hunt deer at that range with a 357 mag or 44 Mag. If you can do that at 100 yards then you can hunt deer at 100 yards with a 44 magnum but even if you can hold your groups that well with a 357 mag it is well beyond the limits of the 357 mag and it should not be used at that range.

Hi fellas. I just want some opinions here if you would please.
I'm not trying to stir arguments, discussions are fine though.
I have Smith revolvers in .357 mag., .45 acp., .44 spl., .44 mag. all with 6 or 6.5 inch barrels, issued factory all the way. No tune ups, no special sights and there ain't no way I'm putting a scope on one of these older prestine, pinned barrel, recessed, chamber Smiths.
In fact the .44 spl is NIB unfired and I'm having a hard time working up the courage to get 'er dirty.
All these are capable of 3" and better, much better in fact, from the bench at 25 yards.
I have yet to try any at 50 yards or further.
The M-29 "S" series N frame will shoot factory 240 grain loads into 1.5" at 25 and I'm sure will shoot much better than my abilities.
I know any of these calibers is capable of taking deer sized game as far as I can hit one except the .357 which is a little on the light side I think for deer.
Still the .357 should be o.k. at 25 or 30 yards.
The big question is for you experienced handgun hunters.
I'm a very experienced at combat/defensive pistol shooting, not hunting.
My experience with handguns is limited to 50 yards and less with most shooting being done at 25, 12, and 7 yards.
For you hunters that regularly shoot at 50 and more yards what is the practical limit for taking deer with an adequate caliber with open sights?
Given the necessary practice of course.
[/i]

Open sights are a limitation when shooting - especially when you get older and have difficulty focusing on the front sight and the target. It is hard enough to get a good sight picture under the best of conditions and when hunting difficulties are multiplied by a number of factors. The longer barrels make the sight radius longer and helps with accuracy but the optical sights have a real advantage over the open sights. If you are shooting a pistol with iron sights you have limited yourself and taken away any margin of error that you might have. it means that you have to make up for it with accuracy and practice - you have to be confident that you can make the shot, judge the distance and have gun enough to make a clean kill with your first shot.

[Catfish]

Questor hit it right on the nose. I alway thee people that if you can keep tham on a paper plate you good to that range. The longest shot I ever took a deer at was 135 yrds. and the deer was at a trot about straight away from me. At the time I shot that deer I was fireing at least 400 round a week through my old Super Blackhawk. To day I would not try yhat shot with iron sights as I do not shoot that much any more, but I do have 3 scoped handguns that I feel very comfortable with at 150 yrds. and with some more practice I`m pretty sure I`ll be good to at least 200 yrds. But shots at that range will be lazered and from a very good rest, really not fair to call handgun hunting.

[Jerry Lester]

I can't really from experience give you advice on any of the calibers you mentioned except the 357 magnum, although the 44 magnum of course will do the job farther out.

I've killed dozens of deer with a 357 rifle, and nine with my 357 Blackhawk.

The 357 magnum from a revolver will absolutely kill deer cleanly at 50+ yards with the right loads. I killed one(a nice doe pictured here) this past season at around 60 yards(paced off) with a Remington 158g SP with a muzzle velocity of about 1400 fps. This combo gave me complete penetration after busting ribs on both sides of the chest. She ran the usual few yards before piling up for good. On field dressing, I was pleased to see both lungs torn up, as well as a nice sized hole through the heart. The shot was slightly quartering away, and at a slight downhill angle of maybe 10-15 degrees.

I've tried the heavier bullets(170+) in the 357 magnum, and although they will do the job, I've personally found that on deer sized game, A tough 158g bullet will consistantly perform better as far as the best balance between expansion(quick kills), and penetration. Using tough 158g bullets at maximum velocities from a revolver, the the 357 magnum will definately kill deer reliably up to at least 75 yards. With that said though, I try very hard to limit my shots to 50 yards or less, with closer being prefered.

[Matt]

This thread has been fixed....   :coffee:

Matt

[jeager106]

This thread has been fixed....   :coffee:

Matt

Huh?
I don't unnerstand "fixed".

You fellas all made good sense to me, well except one which I'll address in a minute.

I'm a looooooooong way from a novice with a handgun.
I am however a novice to handgun hunting.
I also have the sense to know it, ergo I ask questions.
I have a couple nice Smith "N" frames and love the things.
I have personally set my limit at around 50 yards with open sights no matter what caliber I might choose to hunt with.
If I were to opt for my M-28 6" in .357 I would limit my shots to archery distances from a tree stand where I would likely get a standing shot.
I feel 50 yards is a long shot off hand with any handgun even one with a scope or red dot.
If I could use the .357 Trapper rifle I might feel comfortable taking a shot out to 75 yards, maybe.

Redhawk: could you explain this?
"To be honest, I don't hunt with open sights on a handgun, I much prefer a red-dot or scope. I like the idea of a 100 yard shot if it presents itself.  My only hunting gun with open sights is my 4 inch 500 Mag which I use as my back up gun."

Do you mean you hunt with a scoped handgun and carry a .500 Smith magnum as a back up handgun??
That's confusing to me. A back up handgun to a hunting handgun???
Or do you mean you hunt with a rifle and carry a back up revolver in .500 mag.
Are deer that big and nasty where you are? :-D (joke there redhawk)

[Redhawk1]

jeager106, no I don't use my 4 inch 500 Mag as a back up for deer hunting.  It is the only hunting handgun I don't have a red-dot or scope on. I use it as my back up gun when I go hunting for bear or I am camping in the woods.  

[jeager106]

jeager106, no I don't use my 4 inch 500 Mag as a back up for deer hunting.  It is the only hunting handgun I don't have a red-dot or scope on. I use it as my back up gun when I go hunting for bear or I am camping in the woods.  

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
If I were camping in bear country I'd want to sleep with a .500 Mag too! :eek:

The most powerful handgun I've ever fired was the Freedom Arms .454. Nice gun! but it sure did buck.
I 'spect the .500 bucks even more huh?
You got any ballstics on factory ammo on the .500?
Where I am in N.E. Ohio the largest game animal is whitetail deer so the .44 mag is aplenty.
That said there is a definate problem with feral dogs.
I live in crowded N.E. Ohio but my home is secluded with no close neighbors.
Last year I had the scare of my life over a feral dog.
I was in my woods with my then 5 year old son. We were gathering firewood for a dad and son cook out. I kept the little darlin' in site of course but lost sight of him for a brief second.
Remember we are in my woods, very close to my hosue and not close to any danger for the lad at all, no road, nothing like that.
I looked as saw the normally very active little boy standing stark solid frozen in his tracks.
The boy was only 50 feet from me and I looked in the direction he was looking. To my horror there was a very large dog crouched only about 20 feet from him.
I had no gun of course and slowly walked to my boy, picked him up and walked backwards, keeping my eyes riveted on the 'dog'.
I could only pray the thing did not attack but at least I could protect the boy with my bare hands if need be.
I was only about 100 feet from the garage made it there safely with the 'dog' following at a sort of stalking crouch.
I got the boy safely tucked in the house, grabbed the 12 bore Mossy pump, some slugs and went back outside.
Damned if that 'dog' wasn't scent trailing exactly where my boy had been playing in the woods moments before.
I whacked the s.o.b. with two slugs right quick.
I checked the carcus and found the dog appeared in good health though obviously NOT cared for or groomed.
It wore an old leather collar with a license dated 1998 from a county 30 miles north of me.
It appeared to be a shepard/wolf cross breed that had been briefly popular in this area for a short while till the things turned mean and got dumped on us that live in the country.
Since that moment and to this very day I NEVER go outside the house now without being at least adequately armed.
ALWAYS.
I carry at minimum a 2.75" .357 Ruger revovler but favor the M-28 6" Smith .357 in either a belt holser or shoulder rig.
Lesson learned hey?

[Redhawk1]

jeager106, I don't have any ballistics on factory ammo for the .500 Mag. I am a reloader. If you go to Cor-bon web site you can get all that information.  

[longwalker]

If you want to hunt with a handgun, the I think all the mentioned calibers  accomplish your goal. Recognising that some states have "power" minimums. As far as range, isn't the whole idea to get close anyway.

longwalker