smokeless powder

[Dustan]

Has anyone had any experiences with the new M/L that can shoot smokeless powder?

[Encore28]

You mean the infamous Savage ML??? :lol:  :lol:
I have no experience with it BUT I believe Loggy does.
Encore28

[Redhawk1]

It never really interested me.  

[NimrodRx]

Because they're not legal for use during ML season in MI, I've never gotten real interested.  Wakeman has a good review of them on his www.

[Roger_Dailey]

They work quite well.  I've mounted scopes and shot in three of them for friends.   All good shooters and very easy to set up.  They have their own little quirks and such, but don't seem to be fussy.  I believe you could get a lot of good info at: http://modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/ and http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi

[AndyHass]

There are two problems I've hear of consistently with that gun:
1) Out-of-the-box quality is lacking.  A lot of people have work done on them or buy the special "Henry Ball" version to get a really accurate gun.
2) You can't shoot them very much.  The barrel overheats VERY quickly, and I regularly hear people talking about how they needed to wait 15min between shots on a 50-60 degree day to keep it grouping.

Overall I believe it's a decent firearm.  Take anything Wakeman says with a grain of salt.  #1, he sells the gun, and is in partnership with its inventors.  #2, if you believe him, there is absolutely no fault or bad quality about the gun and the MLs the rest of us shoot (and he used to praise) are inherently dangerous.  I've never seen a perfect gun, have you?

Never believe a man who has never admitted to being wrong about anything to anyone.  If you've spent any time around ML message boards, you know that his fan base has decreased exponentially.

[Ricci Price]

You could always build your own. Like I did 45 cal it will shoot a 200 sst 2600 fps 1" @ 100, fast you can load it. Like AndyHass said, beleive nothin' RW says he is in his own little world. My gun is a H&R with 4140 458 cal. 1in22" 26" long adams and bennett bargain barrel. Gun barrel must be made of good quality steel.

[DWHUNTER]

There are two problems I've hear of consistently with that gun:
1) Out-of-the-box quality is lacking.  A lot of people have work done on them or buy the special "Henry Ball" version to get a really accurate gun.
2) You can't shoot them very much.  The barrel overheats VERY quickly, and I regularly hear people talking about how they needed to wait 15min between shots on a 50-60 degree day to keep it grouping.

Overall I believe it's a decent firearm.  Take anything Wakeman says with a grain of salt.  #1, he sells the gun, and is in partnership with its inventors.  #2, if you believe him, there is absolutely no fault or bad quality about the gun and the MLs the rest of us shoot (and he used to praise) are inherently dangerous.  I've never seen a perfect gun, have you?

Never believe a man who has never admitted to being wrong about anything to anyone.  If you've spent any time around ML message boards, you know that his fan base has decreased exponentially.

I have had 3 Savage's and everything you have said is wrong. First the quality is better than any other muzzleloader( and I've owned them all) bar none. Second you DO NOT  have to wait 15 minutes between shots unless your shooting in 80+ degrees. Third the Savage straight out of the box is the most accurate muzzleloader I've owned. And last there is NOT ONE muzzleloader that has been proof tested at the factory to a 129,000 PSI except the Savage.

[AndyHass]

I have had 3 Savage's and everything you have said is wrong. First the quality is better than any other muzzleloader( and I've owned them all) bar none. Second you DO NOT  have to wait 15 minutes between shots unless your shooting in 80+ degrees. Third the Savage straight out of the box is the most accurate muzzleloader I've owned. And last there is NOT ONE muzzleloader that has been proof tested at the factory to a 129,000 PSI except the Savage.

Glad you are happy with it.  But just because your 3 are great doesn't mean a lot of other people don't have problems.  My Omega is great but I know people who have returned them, too.

First, have you REALLY owned every ML out there?  That's a lot of guns and I highly doubt it.  

If the Savage is perfect out of the box, why do so many people seek to add a third lug?  Why the big demand for the Henry Ball version?  I never said the stock gun was terrible (or even bad), just that there was room for improvement.  Check out the Savage message board; people DO wait 15min for them to cool down, and not just at 80 degrees.  There was even a cartoon someone drew of a refrigerated Savage a few months back meant to jest about that fact.

As for 129,000 psi, that's apples to oranges.  Why would a BLACKPOWER gun need to be tested to such a pressure?  It doesn't.  That's for smokeless, and no other gun is designed to shoot smokeless.  That test does NOT say that a Savage shooting smokeless is any safer than another ML shooting 777 or Pyrodex.

I'm happy you like your Savage.  If they were legal in MI for hunting, I'd think about getting one myself.

[AndyHass]

You could always build your own. Like I did 45 cal it will shoot a 200 sst 2600 fps 1" @ 100, fast you can load it. Like AndyHass said, beleive nothin' RW says he is in his own little world. My gun is a H&R with 4140 458 cal. 1in22" 26" long adams and bennett bargain barrel. Gun barrel must be made of good quality steel.

This is interesting.  Excuse my ignorance but what is an H&R?  What did you do for a breech plug and ignition system?  How did you "proof" it?

[DWHUNTER]

You could always build your own. Like I did 45 cal it will shoot a 200 sst 2600 fps 1" @ 100, fast you can load it. Like AndyHass said, beleive nothin' RW says he is in his own little world. My gun is a H&R with 4140 458 cal. 1in22" 26" long adams and bennett bargain barrel. Gun barrel must be made of good quality steel.

This is interesting.  Excuse my ignorance but what is an H&R?  What did you do for a breech plug and ignition system?  How did you "proof" it?

You know so much about the Savage yet you don't know what a H&R is?

[Ricci Price]

Proof was hefty load of imr4198, 120% of max recommended load, breech plug design is typical to most, 5/8 fine thread 1" long,except I made a brass seal for the end of mine, using 209 primers, for more info on H&R/NEF (harrington&richardson/new england firearms) go to smokelessmuzzleloading.com.

[AndyHass]

You know so much about the Savage yet you don't know what a H&R is?

Because I don't pretend I know everything.  Pretty simple actually.  This is a friendly forum.  Nobody wants to see bickering, so why ruin everyone's day by being unfriendly.  Have a nice day.

Thanks Ricci.  I'll look it up.

[Buckskin]

Thats DW for you

[506th]

For my first muzzleloader I bought a Savage a few months ago. I think the quality is great. I got the synthetic stock version with blue barrel, the basic version, and found no problems. Its really not that pretty, but who cares. It is a hunting tool. If you read the literature that comes with it, and  take the advice from those who know what they are talking about, you can do 1 1/2" MOA and less out of the box at 100 yards. I did. Hornady bullets, MMP sabots, Accurate Arms 5744. Works great. Can't wait to take it hunting. Very consistant. I'm sure there are some lemons out there but what company does produce a few.

[DEPUTY]

Savage, yah nice gun, i sold mine and got an second ultimate

 let see a savage burn 6 pellets of t7  and get the same numbers

[Hammerspur]

Check out www.hpmuzzleloading.com (Toby Bridges' site), enter, check table of contents for "Warnings and Cautions". Very unflattering evaluation of the Savage 50 ML. Seems Savage altered (cheapened?) the original designer's (H.Ball) specs. enough to render this gun unsafe with smokeless.

It's worth reading IMO. :shock:

[Omega]

Savage, yah nice gun, i sold mine and got an second ultimate

 let see a savage burn 6 pellets of t7  and get the same numbers

JEEPERS!! Does your hat rotate on your head when you touch that off?
Just humor Dep no disrespect meant!

[Busta]

Savage, yah nice gun, i sold mine and got an second ultimate

 let see a savage burn 6 pellets of t7  and get the same numbers

JEEPERS!! Does your hat rotate on your head when you touch that off?
Just humor Dep no disrespect meant!

Omega,

The whole head rotates when they touch them off. :eek:  I haven't shot one personally but I have watched someone else shoot 4 and 5 pellet loads, this is the first time I have heard of 6 pellets. Maybe he is talking about 30 grain pellets. :?  

The Ultimates are very nice guns and are MAGNUM quality for sure. I am not into the magnum loads, but if a guy wants to shoot the magnums it's the one for sure.

[a45gunslinger]

I have a savage and have been very pleased with it's preformance. I have followed Toby's adventures with the savage. His site is very informative.  I've gone thru almost 6Lbs. of IMR-4227 and have not seen anything like what he shows in his pictures. I firmly belive that it only takes on session to make the gun start gas cutting and when that happens there is no way to stop it. I was thinking of something similar to what Ricci did only use copper for a seal :wink:

Deputy, What bullets are you shooting?