.300 Whisper in a Contender carbine length barrel

[Mike Bell]

Im looking for any info on the .300 Whisper in a Contender carbine length barrel.  Im thinking about putting one together for my daughter.  She is nine and weighs 52 pounds.  I need a very low recoil deer rifle for her.  I thought about a New England youth handi rifle in .243.  I need to reduce the recoil so she does not develope bad habits before she get into shooting alot.  SHe done wore out two bb guns and is going hunting every weekend with us, unlike her lazy 15 year old brother :roll:

Anybody ever had a longer barrel on a Contender with this .300 Whisper?  Im going to put a thumbhole stock shortend to fit her lenght of pull.


Any help will be greatful.

[patw]

I might be able to tell you next week. I am taking my seven year old hunting with me to Texas tomorrow.  She has been going for the last two years, sitting in the blind with me as an observer.  This year there will be another little boy who will be shooting deer, and although I doubt she will want to, if she decides to try shooting, I want to be ready.  One of the rifles I will take will be a 300-221, but on an AR15.  She would only get one shell in the rifle, but I think the semi auto would help tame the recoil some.  I will also be taking a contender rifle in 222 magnum, loaded with 70gr bullets.  The nice thing about that set up is that I have a .22 rimfire insert that will allow her to practice all she wants without the recoil.  
I may try the 300-221 again.  I had used it  a few months ago and lost a pig, and was disgusted with it.  Reading on the pig forum, I saw a site with pig anatomy (http://www.texasboars.com/anatomy.html), I realized that the problem was that I had place my shot badly, and that I was to blame, not the cartridge.  I also have to say that that is one fun caliber to shoot at the range.

[Graybeard]

Personally I'd recommend a 6.5 or 7 TCU. I know they work great from handguns and from a carbine recoil would be nearly nonexistent and the effect on game even better.

[patw]

Great advice form Graybeard.  The barrels and brass are easier to find.

[Lone Star]

I'll put in a plug for the .300 Whisper.  It and the slightly more powerful .30 Herrett are fine hunting cartridges with today's bullets.  With 110 V-Maxs or 125 BTips it is a popular hunting cartridge, more popular than the TCU twins.  Not that these are poor, far from it.  I used my 6.5 TCU on a Texas deer last year - from a handgun - but was not impressed with bullet performance (100 BTip) due to the marginal velocity.  This would improve in a rifle barrel of course, but the .300 works fine in a 10" barrel as it is - it is better matched to its bullets' velocity window than are the TCUs.

That AR may reduce recoil, but isn't it a bit heavy for her to shoot?  Most modern ARs are a far cry from the original concept of a small, lightweight carbine....  Anyway, good luck to you both!

[Doc T]

I have one that is 20" long cut down from 24".  In a bull barrel, 24" doesn't balance well especially with a sling attached. If you get a barrel this long, you need to get a barrel band and mount the sling farther forward than on the forearm.  I load 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips with 19gr H110.  These shoot about an inch at 100.  My best group was shot with Cor-Bon factory ammo using the 125gr HPs.  I shot a one hole three shot group that measured .38" center to center.  I have NOT killed a deer with this round so I cannot say how it will perform, but I feel that one in the chest just behind the shoulder should do it out to 150yds.  I am thinking of getting another barrel and fit it with a fiber optic front and an aperture sight.  This is really a fun round to shoot even in a 10" barrel.  It is a very efficicent cartridge.  Near .30-30 ballistics with a better bullet with much less muzzle blast and recoil.  I love shooting it when I can get it out of my twelve year old daughter's hands!

[jason280]

While I haven't owned a .300 Whisper in a Contender, I did have one in a 16" AR15.  It was a lot of fun to shoot, but I didn't shoot a lot of supersonic ammo through it.  Most of what I shot were 240gr Sierra BTHP GameKings at just a hair over 1000fps.  Talk about drop at 200 yards!  But, the velocity was still over 900 fps at that distance.  The 240 is an amazingly effecient bullet at subsonic speeds, and really shines in the Whisper. I'd intended on suppressing the upper, but never got around to it and eventually sold it.  

Here's the lowdown on the .300 Whisper.  Recoil is negligible, especially with 125gr bullets, and it is a lot of fun to shoot.  But, brass is a pain to make.  You can buy sized brass made from trimmed down .223 cases for around $100 per 1000.  Or, you can simply buy .221 Fireball brass from Midway and make your own.  Problem is, dies are expensive, and the sizing usually takes two steps to keep from splitting necks.  Cor-Bon actually offers loaded ammo, but its not cheap.  

The 7mm TCU is a much better option, as its easy to make and .223 brass is readily available.  Plus, the TCU is a much more effective supersonic cartridge than the Whisper is, but that's simply because the Whisper was designed from the ground up to be suppressed.  Also, you can pick up a set of dies for much cheaper!

[Lone Star]

Plus, the TCU is a much more effective supersonic cartridge than the Whisper is, but that's simply because the Whisper was designed from the ground up to be suppressed.

Oh Really?  Here is what the designer has to say:

"A "Whisper®" cartridge must be capable of sub-sonic extreme accuracy with very heavy bullets for its caliber; i.e. 240 grains in 30, as well as moderate to high velocity while maintaining excellent accuracy with light bullets for the caliber; i.e. 125 at 2300 FPS in 30.   The 300 Whisper® was the first of the series, and, contrary to what you may have read about it, the fact of the matter is the cartridge was designed as a multi-purpose cartridge from the beginning. Its design parameters, in addition to the ballistics quoted above, were that it must be capable of being used in the AR-15/M-16 family of rifles, Contenders and bolt action rifles as well as being easily suppressed. I know that because I invented it." -  JD Jones

Some "lowdown"....   :roll:

[jason280]

So, you have experience with the .300 Whisper other than what you have read on the internet?  

I see reading comprehension is tricky for you, so I'll help you out.  If you will actually read my post, you'll see that I never claimed the .300 Whisper wasn't a decent supersonic round.  I simply stated the 7mm TCU was a more effective supersonic round, for the simple reason for it achieves higher velocities with similar weight hunting bullets (125gr).  The best you can hope for is around 2250fps with the Whisper in a rifle barrel, while the TCU can safely reach 2400+ in the same length barrel.  Case capacity for the Whisper is about 10gr less than the TCU.  

Contrary to what you believe, the Whisper was designed to be a subsonic round.  I have talked at great length with JD Jones over this on the phone several times, as I contacted him several years ago to build a suppressed upper for one of my AR rifles.  As you may or may not know, the round was designed from the ground up to be used in the AR/M16 class of rifles, which is why the .221 Fireball case was used.  It allowed the OAL to be short enough to still work in a standard AR15/M16 magazines, and allowed the user to keep the same bolt.  All that was necessary for the conversion was the Whisper barrel and a little tweaking to the gas system.  

It wasn't until during original testing with the round that they discovered it was also a decent supersonic cartridge with 125-150gr bullets.  This enabled the round to in fact serve dual roles. Argue all you want, but I have actually spoken with the man you quoted above.  The intention of the .300 Whisper was initially as a subsonic round, hence the "Whisper" title.  

That AR may reduce recoil, but isn't it a bit heavy for her to shoot? Most modern ARs are a far cry from the original concept of a small, lightweight carbine....

You obviously have even less experience with AR's than you do with the .300 Whisper.  You can easily get an AR at around 6 lbs with scope, depending on the barrel weight.  Bushmaster offers several carbon fiber rifles that are extremely light, and very compact with 16" barrels.

[Graybeard]

Strange Jason. I've also spoken with JD several times regarding the .300 Whisper and each time he has said just what the quote of his above did. That is that the round was NOT designed primarily as a subsonic but as a dual purpose round. Said it was from day one intended to be that. Never known JD to say one thing one time and another thing on a different occasion. His story on matters I've talked with him about has always been consistently the same.

[jason280]

Strange indeed.  

My first phone call with him was around two or so years ago, when I first got the idea of building an AR around the .300 Whisper.  We talked several times over the phone after that, mainly discussing the effectiveness of the Whisper in barrel lengths from 11.5-16" in the AR15.  We also discussed the role of the Whisper as a subsonic and supersonic cartridge, and it was my understanding that the main focus with the development of the round was as a suppressed cartridge.  However, even at its inception, it was understood that the round could also achieve supersonic velocities with lighter bullets.  Common sense dictated this, especially considering the case capacity afforded by the necked up .221 case and the availabiltiy of lightweight .30 cal bullets.  Basically, there was no reason to have suspected (even in the early stages) that the round couldn't serve two roles, and therefore have dual purposes.  

I am going to call SSK on Monday, and talk a little more about this with Mr Jones.

[patw]

Just got back from our Texas hill country hunt.  While my daughter was not quite ready to shoot the deer rifle, she did shoot a racoon with a .22, her first kill.  It dropped when she shot it, but when we went to look for it, could not find it. She was very disapointed, but as we looked around, a coon started coming down out of a tree, and I was not going to let my little girl's first kill get away.  All I had was the 300-221, and in its first test, I can say that it will kill a 5 pound racoon effectively.  In any case, she and I were very proud of her first kill.  
The next evening we were in a blind and got to try the round on a deer.  A little buck was standing about 80 yards away almost facing us.  It dropped in its tracks and never took a step.  The bullet had torn through the heart and ended up in the guts.  Up to that point I had been carrying my '06 with me in case I saw something big, but was impressed enough that the next morning I left it at the camp and only took the 300-221.  Of course, even though I had not seen one so far, an axis buck came out to the feeder.   I had a good broadside shot at about 80 yds, held mid chest just back of the shoulder and hoped.  THe buck dropped in its tracks, kicked a couple of times, never got up.  It weighed 180 lbs, and the bullet had gone through one lung, hit the spine, through the other lung and one tiny fragment lodged under the skin on the other side.  The next evening, our last hunt, I shot a spike with it again at about the same distance, and again the buck dropped in its tracks.  Again, both lungs and the spine, with an exit wound of about the sized of a half dollar.  In all three cases, no wasted meat.

I had built this rifle for my little girl, but I had so much fun with this that I may have to build her her own.  Someone mentionned the weight of the AR 15, but I carry the guns to the blind and my daughter shoots sitting on my lap resting the rifle on the stand window, and the extra weight will also help with the recoil.  There is also the advantage of the collapsible stock adjusting to her size.  I am still curious how the round will do without a hit on the spine,  ie if it will leave a good enough blood trail.   That said, I also have to say that in a contender I would probably shoot the 7TCU, but I will start my girl with the AR in 300-221 because of the reduced recoil.  Regarding the brass, forming it from .221 fireball is no harder than forming the TCU from .223.

[Lowrider 49]

I got an 18" Bullbury 7 TCU tapered barrel for the contender last summer. Very accurate and the gun has shot 6 does this year so far from 25 to 130 yds with Speer 115 gr HPs. All were bang/flops  sudden death no tracking PERIOD!! One doe was shot by a friend's 15 year old daughter at about 40 yds thru the ribs....the deer did the death jump and fell in a pile...she is still smiling!! She had missed 3 deer in the last 2 years with a 20 ga shotgun that kicked her too much. The 7 TCU was small, light and not much recoil.

It has a weaver K6 and without strap it weighs under 6 lbs and carries like a Daisy Red Ryder. It is my new FAVORITE gun!!

[Lone Star]

So, you have experience with the .300 Whisper other than what you have read on the internet?

Actually yes, although I am hesitant to respond to such a defensive and off-base post.  I got my first .300 T/C barrel from JD himself right after it was introduced.  He explained the history of the round to me then, he wrote extensively about it in The Sixgunner (his HHI hunting magazine) and then posted it online in the quote above.  Why would he tell you something completely different than he told me, his customers, and GB?

I see reading comprehension is tricky for you, so I'll help you out.

Ah yes, insulting the messenger - that was Bill Clinton's stragegy wasn't it?  The hell with the facts, attack the source!  But I digress.  Why are you even talking about which cartridge is "best"?  I never took you to task as to which cartridge was the "best", all I took issue with was the history of the cartridge - that JD designed the .300 as a dual-purpose cartridge. Since it's currently two-to-one against your claim, I'd suggest letting the issue die.  And please stay off the coffee, you are 'way too hyper to be posting what - and the way - you did.  

[fyrepowrx]

i shoot several small-case centerfires in Contender carbine barrels, including the 7TCU, 300 Whisper, .25 Classic, .257TCU, .30x39, 32/20, and a couple of others...at one time i had a 6.5 TCU but the 6.5's just arent my thing for the most part, nothing wrong with them, i'm just more of a .25 fan...i cant really tell much difference between any of them on deer, but overall i would have to say if you dont mind spending a few extra dollars on a barrel the .30x39 is a fine choice...about the same as a herrett but without the case forming chores, and it can be downloaded to 300/221 levels or exceed it somewhat if you like, especially with heavier bullets...i shoot it in both a 12 & 18" barrel & it is fairly agreeable to load for..

have to agree with Graybeard & Lowrider too though, my 7TCU (a factory 21" tube) sure is nice to shoot & sure does shoot good...a carbine barrel will add around 200fps or a bit more depending on the load used over 14" barrel speeds...