Author Topic: gunnut69 Question for ya (Read 873 times)

Graybeard · « **on:** January 06, 2004, 07:11:44 AM »

Thought about PM'ing you on this but what the heck someone else might also be interested in your response.

First a bit of back ground. I love the gray laminated stocks in use on a few guns these days. BUT they are so limited in what guns they are on and what calibers. I have no interest in owning any of the calibers or brands currently offered with them. Sooo...

If I bought a Rem. 700 LSS with the stock I want and chambered to a magnum caliber which is all they offer them in how much trouble is it gonna be to convert it is a .30-06 based round. Specially the .280 Rem. AI. I understand a barrel change but what about the bolt face?

And to turn it around the other way. What if I buy an Rem. 700 LSS Mtn. Rifle in a .30-06 based round and want to make it into a .257 Whby.? IF I were to do both at basically same time is a bolt swap feasible or is just letting a smith change bolt faces the way to go?

GB

gunnut69 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2004, 06:12:35 AM »

I guess the question boils down to, what is entailed in switching caseheads in the Remington 700 series rifles? First let me say I totally understand the why of your actions but would have proceded in a different way. I would have bought a 30-06(probably a used rifle) and rebarreled, and restocked. Changing the caliber from a magnum bolt face to a standard bolt face(30-06, 280, 270, 308,etc.) requires a bolt swap. Considering your going to have to rebarrel anyway the only gain is not having to restock. even that has some drawbacks. The Magnum rifles generally carry a heavier barrel profile than the standard calibers, which means you 280 will end up heavier than need be. Also a magazine box/follower change will be needed. The 700's use the mag box to control cartridge feeding rather than feed rails as in the mauser. There are drawbacks to that but there are advantages. It makes caliber conversions much easier than the mauser, in some cases such as here converting a magnum mauser back to a standard case would be very difficult indeed. The other question you asked was which is easier(cheaper, 'better') to open a bolt face or swap bolts. Without any doubt a bolt swap would be both easier and cheaper, if a bolt can be found. The reason is simply put the extractor. Usually opening a boltface on the 700 entails an extractor swap. I am sure there are those who can recut the recess for a new remington extractor but I know of no one. The usual procedure is to use an M16 or Sako extractor. This modification is safe if done correctly but adds consederably to the espense of the conversion and negates the '3 rings of steel' concept of the remington action. I guess the short answer is use a 30-06, rebarrel, and restock. It's cheaper, and probably safer than the path you've chosen. But a Mag, re-barrel, and swap/Modify the bolt. Best answer of all? Buy a stainless M70 in 280, restock and open the chamber. You get the SS, a great extractor(at least the design), and the only expnse is opening the chamber and restock. You even get to pick the camo color of your choice!!! I am kinds partial to the ACCRABOND stocks. The stability of a laminate that looks more like fine walnut...
Just remember there are only 2 action lengths in the M700 long and short(not counting the super shorts). The rest is covered buy magbox changes and bolt face differences. Stock changes are generally cheaper than rebarrels(not counting fancy walnut) and altering the safety features on ANY weapon will give a gunsmith the willys...and his insurance man high blood pressure. Sorry for the length of the reply,,hope I answered your question...it was a very interesting one..thanks!! Jerry

PS--I went to Remington Country and looked at the LSS. Just buy the rifle in 7mmRemMag. There is little difference in performance and ammo is nearly a universal thing in gunshops.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2004, 08:33:22 AM »

Yup Jerry I know my way of planning it sure isn't the cheapest or easiest but there is a bit of reason behind my madness.

The Model 700 is THE rifle as far as I'm concerned. No Win. Model 70s for me. I wasn't sure if the conversion from standard to magnum and vice versa was such a bright idea or not. Guesss basically it isn't.

Back to ground zero to formulate another plan I guess.

Ideally I want to end up with a Mtn. Rifle contour rifle in .280 AI but could have lived with the heavier. The given here is R700 action and gray laminated stock. As pretty as the accrabond stocks are I really want the gray laminate. Guess I'm just weird that way. If I could live with the detachable box mag (can't and ain't gonna) then the easy way might be to just buy the Mtn. Rifle in .280 Rem. and either live with it or have it rechambered and then have it stocked the way I want it. If I do this I don't get SS tho on action or barrel.

What I may do on the .257 Whby. is just bite the bullet and buy the Wheatherby. They are now offering the cheaper Jap made action in that caliber which should get price right and then buy a stock. I think that is still not gonna make it SS metal tho.

Guess there ain't no cheap way to get where I want to go. Thanks for the info.

GB

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2004, 12:15:34 PM »

Bill,

There is the other option get the rifle you want in the desired caliber and metal. Buy a Gray laminted OEM for that rifle from Wenig's. Sell the take off stock, to pick up costs.

As to the 257 Weatherby, let me make a phone cal and i'll send you a PM.

DD

gunnut69 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2004, 03:41:34 PM »

Hey GB, you might consider using a donor rifle(chromoly) and have the action Armoloyed. We did that a few times at the shop when someone insisted they wanted an old Sako in SS. Never were made so we armoloyed standard actions. They match pretty well, are stronger than SS and more rust resistant than their SS counterparts. Use stainless barrel and gray laminated stock of whatever shape you prefer..

Graybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2004, 04:54:01 PM »

I am a stubborn old rascal but I do sometimes bend to the realities of the world. :eek:

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There is the other option get the rifle you want in the desired caliber and metal. Buy a Gray laminted OEM for that rifle from Wenig's. Sell the take off stock, to pick up costs.

This really isn't possible since Remington doesn't make an SS rifle in .280 Rem. Only blued and only with the detachable box magazine I hate so much at that. I think long term this one is gonna hafta be a buy an action and go from there deal or accept the brown laminated stocks of the LSS mtn. rifles of which I have two. And I wish they were gray. :cry:

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As to the 257 Weatherby, let me make a phone cal and i'll send you a PM.

Will look for PM.

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Hey GB, you might consider using a donor rifle(chromoly) and have the action Armoloyed. We did that a few times at the shop when someone insisted they wanted an old Sako in SS. Never were made so we armoloyed standard actions. They match pretty well, are stronger than SS and more rust resistant than their SS counterparts. Use stainless barrel and gray laminated stock of whatever shape you prefer..

Yup Jerry that might work. Didn't realize armoloy was still in that business. They've changed ownership. I spoke with the new folks about a year or so ago. Wanted them to do some mold blocks for me to do a product review on. Even offered to pay for the work if needed. They just never would even agreed to do the blocks even with me paying. I got the impression they had give up the gun trade.

If I went with the DBM R700 in .280 and had this done would changing from DBM to normal BDL mag be a problem? What about doing the barrel as well as action with armaloy?

I realize all of this might end up costing a bunch but if I ever decide on a direction I'm gonna see if I can get someone to do some or all of the work in exchange for advertising on here. I can be very generous with the amount I offer for such a deal. If that don't work for part or all of the work it is gonna take me awhile to make all of this happen.

GB

SeaBass · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2006, 07:36:30 PM »

Greybeard,

Have you made any progress on this project?
Weatherby has really expanded the Vanguard line. You can get a stainless Vanguard in .257 weatherby in 3 different variations. None of which have a black and grey(pepper) laminate stock though.

Are you set in stone on .280AI? You can get a Howa 1500 stainless (supreme jrs classic) with a pepper laminate stock from Legacy sports in .270 or .270 WSM. They also sell barrelled actions but no .280 or .257 Weatherby.

They are both solid, accurate rifles but a both too heavy for a mountain rifle IMO. 7 1/2 pounds and up.

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** April 29, 2006, 05:51:58 AM »

I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in SS and it at best would only shoot groups about double or triple the size of the target packed with it. I found out Weatherby doesn't "really shoot the gun" to obtain those groups packed with it. They shoot only the barreled action in a machine rest. Then they later add a stock. The gun has serious bedding issues and I decided I didn't want it as bad as I thought I did so traded it off. For now the entire idea is on hold.

My breathing problems have gotten so bad I can't roam the woods to hunt anymore anyway. So for now until the breathing issue is resolved if it ever can be I've moved back into wingshooting as walking around a skeet range or clays course is a lot easier for me to do.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2006, 11:33:30 AM »

Sorry GB I've been away from the computer for a while.. I had hoped the lungs were doing better by now! Still the DBM to BDL wouldn't have worked...the stock on the DBM is reieved for the retension clips on the magazine.. I haven't had an Armaloy done for some time but a barrel wouldn't likely create any problems, at least it didn't in the past. I have been a little under the weather,, The diabetes is not doing to good and the legs are getting worse(arthritis). Only got to turkey hunt Thursday of last week but got a dandy,, 24-25 lbs,/11 inch beard and 1 1/4 inch spurs! Took nearly a day to recupertae from the 1/3 mile hike out!! A long recovery time for such a short walk.. albeit with a large turkey in the bag.. Can't hunt 'til Monday, tomorrow, but it's calling for rain.. Likely a day for the shop..not the woods.

killdeer · « **Reply #9 on:** May 02, 2006, 05:04:47 AM »

For the .280AI I would buy a 30-06 based stainless rifle. Have rebarelled with a quality mountain contour to the desired length. Sell the stock and barell (I know a good place to list it). http://www.reamerrentals.com/elkridge2.htm Order a stock from here or similar.