Author Topic: Contender frame stretching (Read 1339 times)

josiah712 · « **on:** January 01, 2006, 02:48:32 AM »

Does anyone know about the problem that can cause Contender frames to stretch? My favorite shooting with my Contender is done with a ten inch 44 Mag barrel and full power loads. I have been averaging over 1000 rounds a year with this one, and so far it still locks up smooth and solid, and is very accurate. But I would think that if these frames stretch over time, that this would be a good chambering to cause that problem. Because it has a good combination of high pressure and a large diameter on the breach face.

jhalcott · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2006, 03:11:13 AM »

why do you NEED full power loads? I use them for hunting ,but for plinking I use lighter loads. With the 44mag ,I don't think an animal would notice a 100 fps less load. You should think about what all that recoil is doing to YOU! Carpal tunnel is a REAL pain, believe me! Stretching a T/C frame is possible though. I've seen a few that had 45-70 barrels or some heavy wildcat rounds that were pushed to the limit. One guy had a full length 444 Marlin barrel. He shot some factory ammo and damaged the frame!

josiah712 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 01, 2006, 04:24:01 AM »

Thanks jhalcott,

I will take that to heart. And I will certainly give up 100 fps to keep from ruining a frame. But I don't want to give up more power than I have to, so that is what I'm looking to figure out here. So here's some details: I'm shooting Rem and Rainier 240 grainers, I'm using surplus WC 820 powder and Win large pistol primers. I am averaging about 1590 fps through the PACT chrony. Yes I am plinking, but I am trying to build skill with the kind of loads that Keith was so proficient with. I shoot the IHMSA pigs, turkeys, and rams, always from off hand. I squeeze tight on both stocks. The recoil is enjoyable for me - rowdy but not painful. The 150 meter turkeys sound like they are being batted down with a crowbar. I will also certainly back off to save my health, but so far my hands feel fine. Near the end of my 100 round ammo box, I am still hitting a lot more pigs and turkeys than I am missing. So what I really want to know here is: How many feet per second can I have without ruining this frame?

swampthing · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2006, 02:17:06 PM »

One way would be to switch to some Hogdon, H110 or Vihtavour oui, N110, these powders typically produce outstanding velocities at very safe pressures.
I would give SSK industries a call. I had a .309 JDJ on my G2. SSK told me that the 43-45,000 psi of proper loads could be just about shot indefinetally with out stretch. .44mags opperate at roughly 36-39,000 psi and should not pose a problem if it is a safe load with the contender.
I was getting over 1500 fps with 280g LBT hardcast loads with H4227 loaded just above a 3/4 of max. Accuracy was one ragged hole at 50yds all day long.

Lone Star · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2006, 03:19:23 PM »

The original Contender frames - pre-1980 or so - were weaker near the junction of the breech face and the frame rails. This is were a frame will stretch, the metal is thinnest there. I stretched an early frame by shooting over-pressured .35 Remington and .45-70 loads; it took several thousand to do it but you could see a faint stretch mark on both frame rails just ahead of the breech face. T/C replacecd the frame no charge - I was nonplussed as I told them it was my fault and I expected to pay. What a company!

Don't worry about stretching your frame - as long as you use factory-level pressure or less it won't happen. T/C designed it to last at factory pressures. I know silhouetters who have fired many thousands of rounds through their .44s without stretching the frames....as long as they stayed at or below factory pressures.

Lyman lists the fastest load in a 10" T/C and 240-grain bullet at 1554 fps. If you are getting higher velocities, you may be getting higher pressures than Lyman recommends. Hodgdon lists 1582 fps in an 8.5" barrel. Alliant lists max 240-grain loads at 1550 fps. I'd say you are right at the maximum factory pressures now. To know what your pressures are for certain, either buy an Oehler M43, or stick to pressure-tested book loads.

BTW, Elmer Keith didn't use loads as powerful as what you are shooting. He used 22.0 grains of #2400 with his #429421 bullet for 1225 fps out of his 4" Smiths. You are really guilding the lily....

josiah712 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2006, 11:35:42 PM »

Thank you for the help, Lone Star and Swamp Thing.

I will follow that advise and back off to about 1500 fps flat. I will also keep a watch out for stretching signs, and if I see them, I will make this one my rimfire frame. The frame I am using for this was made in about 1991 so hopefully it's a strong one.

There is one thing that puzzles me though: If I can stretch this frame with just a little more pressure than a max SAAMI 44mag, then how could T/C have ever sold 445 barrels for this? This cartridge has way more pressure and has to have rifle primers to contain it. I would think that anything I could load in a 44mag without piercing a pistol primer would be easy on the frame compared to a 445sm.

Lone Star · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2006, 09:12:55 AM »

The .445 was never factory loaded; there is no SAAMI pressure standard and it depends on the handloader to keep the pressures reasonable. Accurate limits their load data to 43,000 cup, but most loads are under 40,000 cup, same as the .44 Magnum. They do not use rifle primers however - they use magnum pistol primers to reliably ignite the large powder charges.

Many early frames were ruined by silhouetters hot-rodding the wildcat Herrett cartridges. This is one reason that T/C no longer offers the Contender in wildcat chamberings.

n8ghz · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2006, 09:59:40 AM »

Lone Star said:

"Many early frames were ruined by silhouetters hot-rodding the wildcat Herrett cartridges. This is one reason that T/C no longer offers the Contender in wildcat chamberings."

Not to be arguementative, but did the 375 JDJ cease to be a 'wildcat'?

I think the Herretts were dropped due to not being popular anymore.
I still have both,though.

Lone Star · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2006, 10:45:20 AM »

Quote

Not to be arguementative, but did the 375 JDJ cease to be a 'wildcat'?

Since loaded ammunition was offered by T/C.

n8ghz · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2006, 10:48:37 AM »

You win, but you get my point.

spinafish · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2006, 11:24:31 AM »

they still offer several wildcats through Fox Ridge. The Herrets, the .414 SuperMag and the .445 Supermag. 6.5 TCU,7mmTCU..these are all roll your own cartridges...and as far as I know the .300 Whisper is only loaded by Cor-Bon.