Author Topic: Lock time with hammer extension. (Read 1354 times)

Stickfigure · « **on:** January 21, 2006, 01:39:16 PM »

I was interested if the Stock No. 30335 - Double coil hammer spring from
http://www.gunsprings.com/RifleShotgun/HR_RsNF.html would improve lock time?
Would it cause frequent transfer bar breakage?
I have a scope on my 30-30 Handi and it shoots 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards with out the hammer extension.. I put the hammer extension on and groups goto 1 1/2 inch. I take the extension off and groups are back down to 1/2 inch at 200 yards.
Need your input.. hard to pull the hammer back when wearing gloves w/o the hammer extension.
Thanks ahead of time for your input...
Roy.

Busta · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2006, 02:01:39 PM »

No doubt it would shorten lock time, but there seems to be some bad transfer bars lately and like you say they could take a real beating.

I have also experienced better accuracy with the hammer extension removed, but for a hunting situation it is not enough to warrant hunting without it with a scoped gun. Who could complain about 1-1/2" at 200, not me. :grin:

Hopefully someone that has used the double coil spring for awhile will let us know how their transfer bar and firing pin is holding out.

Fred M · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2006, 04:45:07 PM »

The double coil torsion spring does not fit the SB2 Handi from what I can tell. The SB2 Hammer has only one hook stud on the left side.

I replaced bothe hammer springs on my two guns each had about 300 rounds fired. The new springs seam to be much stronger. It also helps to use soft primers like the Federal or Winchester. CCI primers are hard to spark in a lot of guns.

I have lowered the hammer extension by filing the forward edge of the groove and put the extension under the hammer. Then I ground a 1/4" off the top of the hammer spur. This also helps with the scope clearance.

This will speed up the hammer quite a few mili/sec for better ignition. I also toke a coil of the firing pin return spring reducing resistance for the hammer by a 1.5 lbs.

mt3030 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2006, 06:46:50 PM »

Let's see...That's a 1/4 (.25) in at 100yds. Since we are using a .308 bore, it can not be measured .25 outside to outside. So we must be measuring center to center. Which means they are all going into one hole..... Yep, you have a good one. How many rounds to each group? Wish I could get one of my Handi 30-30s to shoot that well. Can you give me any advice on factory ammo or handloads?

cpj · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2006, 07:05:09 PM »

Now that someone else has said it, nahhh, I wont pile on also. But look at the name of the town in MO that he is from.

Somethings kind of odd about that place.

Fred M · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2006, 07:30:53 PM »

Well Gentlemen.
You all heard of these running shots on Antelope, off hand at 600yrds. 1/2 " at 200 ought to be a cinch with a 30-30 :lol:

Give the man the benefit of doubt, ha.

Stickfigure · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2006, 11:53:35 AM »

200yard 8shot group with Winchester 150gr Silvertip 4x12x44mm scope and bypod.

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2006, 02:03:20 PM »

:toast: Good shootin Roy, very good shootin :agree:
-Aaron

bladerunner · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2006, 03:44:39 PM »

THAT'S some of the nicest shootin I've SEEN

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2006, 04:20:06 PM »

Most of us would be happy with that group at 100yd!! :wink:

mt3030 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2006, 05:48:46 PM »

Wow! Must be true, I just saw the target. That rifle/shooter/ammo combo ranks right up there with national competive shooters. Great shooting.

Did you have to do any of the usual Handi tricks to get it to shoot like that? What type of barrel break-in procedure, if any, did you use?

6-24x42 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2006, 07:08:58 AM »

humbling at best :lol:

superhornet · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2006, 07:37:46 AM »

The 30-30 Handi is one of the more accurate rifles. I have shot some very good groups at 100 yards using a variety of different powders and loads. The Silvertip bullet was one of the more accurate going in the Winchester factory load. Never tried it at a two hundred yard paper target, but did do a whitetail at a rangefinder 240 yards on a fire trail..Probably one in a thousand lucky shot. But, I would suppose a very good rifle shot could accomplish a pretty good group at 200 yards. But, that is some super shooting for any type of rifle and especially the 30-30.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2006, 08:26:26 AM »

I've learned a long time ago never discount an accurate Handi in the hands of a good rifleman.

It isn't always a person shoots a fantastic group with them,and to say a person is capable of shooting a 1/2"-5/8" group at 100 yards is a great achievment..at 200 yards is certainly a First..and has been unheard of till now.Since I wasn't there and didn't witness it,I can't dispute it either...no-one else can either....so I'll say this..."Nice shooting Stickfigure..and if your ever up this way towards St.Louis..maybe we can, do some shooting together sometime...I have a soft part in my heart for accurate Handi's..and would love to try your 30-30 one of these days..".

Mac

pascalp · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2006, 09:13:56 AM »

Nice shooting,
but you miss the center :-)

I also throw away hammer extension from my handis, i only punch paper target so i could manage the hammer.
When dry firing, time to time i saw some strange effect when the hammer extension is on.

charles coker · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2006, 01:59:31 AM »

interesting on the effect of the hammer ext

I was lookng at it and seeing if I could lower it a bit for more scope clearance.. didn't think about it's effect on accuracy

Fred M · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2006, 06:53:46 AM »

I am not convinced of the detrimental effect of the hammer extension. As far as vibration is concerned any spring activated firing system will set up vibrations.

Unless you insert a snap cap with the same resistance as a live primer you will always see the reticle jumb when you dry fire even in a fine BR action.

The hammer will not fall down all the way with a live primer, so the hammer never hits the the steel stop.
That means little or no vibration. That is the way it supped to work.

I never fired my 257 R or any other Handi without the the extension. My 257R shoots 1/2" groups in spite of the extension. It all has to do with how you hold your gun and how you control the trigger pull.

You just make sure that extension is on tight, like any other part on the Handi. I am thinking of bedding the extension with steel bed., because the wee set screw is just that it can move.

The hammer extension is no trouble, so get used to it, unless you are looking for something to blame. The trouble is the nut behind the butt.

bladerunner · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2006, 07:13:27 AM »

Fred,stickfigure says his groups open up with the extension on it....if that's the case,then SOMETHING about the extension is the culprit....he did not say ANYTHING about VIRBATION,he is citing LOCK TIME.....which should be slowed by added weight and could easily affect accuracy

pascalp mentioned that he doesn't use the extension because he noticed it makes the rifle do funny things when dry fired.....that could be the effect you are reffering to,but that still doesn't address stickfigures original complaint

pascalp · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2006, 07:23:20 AM »

Fred,
i known and i full agreed "...thighten the nut behind the stock ...", it's working for me, everyday.
Sometime i had seen some vibrations, not always and it seems to disappear without the extension. In my mind, i just remove a possible "alibi".
I simply doesn't really need-it, so why bother with it, that's all.

In fact, it was at the beginning when i discover Nef rifle. So maybe my hold or my action on the trigger simply improve !.

Question: is your double posting a "detrimental effect" of speaking of hammer extension. maybe some vibrations on the keyboard !? :-)
Sorry, i couldn't resist :oops:

pascalp · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2006, 07:36:00 AM »

Bladerunner,
you are right about locktime. The heavier "hammer" have more inertia so locktime increase. Normally with a steady follow-through, there is no side effect on the quality of the shot , specially with a motionless target. It's simply harder.

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2006, 04:02:39 PM »

According to the above scenario when I shoot 1/2groups with the the hammer extension I should be able to improve my groups by 2/3 to .167" simply by taking off the the hammer extension. That is what you guys are saying. Do I believe it? Take a guess.

I shot with GI 303's and 98 Mausers with no speed locks, these rifles when tuned will make most Handi's look pretty sad. The ignition system on the rifles including the cocking piece are quite bit heavier and lock time is just as long. than a Handi Hammer with an extension,me thinks.

Thes double posts are created by me pounding my head against the keybord and is giving me a headache. :roll: :eek: .The nut behind the butt does not refer to the bolt that holds the stock on. :-D :-D :-D :-D :idea3:

cpj · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2006, 04:38:02 PM »

Quote from: pascalp

Bladerunner,
you are right about locktime. The heavier "hammer" have more inertia so locktime increase. Normally with a steady follow-through, there is no side effect on the quality of the shot , specially with a motionless target. It's simply harder.

Does anyone here see the irony of a French man actually holding a rifle. :-D :-D :-D

ITS A JOKE! NO OFFENSE MEANT TO ANYONE! :-)

It doesnt take much to amuse me,BTW. :wink:

bladerunner · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2006, 04:50:18 PM »

Fred,where as a slightly slower lock time may not affect YOU,stickfigure could be doing something right after he squeezes the trigger affecting accuracy (even though it looks to me like he's doin everything PERFECTLY)that a slower lock time could affect,and a faster lock time could hide completly,do you not agree?

in other words,with perfect form and follow through,lock time becomes almost a non-issue,but if you have a flaw,slow lock time will point that flaw out....and if you speed lock time back up,it erases the flaw

mitchell · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2006, 05:45:53 PM »

well here

go ahead start laughing your butt off.

thats a 100 yard 3 shot group from my 243, it scores .122 so if you double it , it COULD SCORE .244 at 200 yards so yeah i think its possible that stick shot that group. i wish i have shot my 243 enough at 200 to show it off but my 204 ruger will shoot better groups then sticks 30-30.

so yes guys it is possible for a handi to shoot that good, lets be courteous and try not to call other men liars unless we have proof.

bladerunner · « **Reply #24 on:** January 24, 2006, 07:47:35 PM »

Mitchell,I agree 100%

no point calling someone a liar

mitchell · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:25:10 AM »

Quote from: jeff223

a picture to prove it

i know what your saying and i agree a pic doesn't mean anything. but i've got witnesses.

what are those two rigs in the pic jeff??? you got some big scopes on them. and those are nice groups but the one on the right looks a lot like your postal match card.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2006, 07:08:11 AM »

I remembered those groups of his..that was some pretty good shooting for a 30-30 and his 223...

Quote

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject: hows this group from my 30-30? Reply with quote

Thumbnail, click to enlarge.

a 100yd group with a 30-30 handi rifle.center to center just under 1 inch.handloaded 125gr spitzer over 37gr of blc-2

also a 5 shot group from my 223

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=31659&highlight=

Good one Jeff...very nice groups from your 30-30 and 223... :agree: I don't recall how the 150 grain loads worked out for you though?...

Mac