Last one I will ever Buy

[Norseman112]

Fred,

you can't even go to the dealer you bought it from and have him send it back to the factory??
I agree Quality Control should be better, however customer service  seems to be pretty good. I have called there and ask some questions about new calibers and just some general questions.I have to say they have always been plesant and helpful. The only reason I found this site is because I had a problem with my first Handi and I found this site. The .223 is shooting great, H&R did me right so I bought a standard .243 and I am happy with that rifle to. I had no problems with it.  I decided to stay here to because I like it here. You I know I wonder how many members came here and stayed here because they were looking for help.  So perhaps we see more of the "looking for help aspect"  and at times some negitive reviews, because if you buy a rifle and all is well why look for help? I would hope more handi rifles work good out of the box then ones that don't . I guess the factory would be the only ones to have that information.  

Well Just a thought,

John

[Fred M]

Norseman112.
In Canada you cant take a gun out of the store unless it is registered in your name under your licence. It is not registered unless you pay for it.

Once you pay for it the dealer is off the hook and he can't take the rifle back. A dealer can't export a rifle unless he has and export licence, most don't since this has to go through a broker ( money up front).

If you want something done to the gun you have to send to a service gunsmith appointed by H&R somewhere in Canada. How much he does, I don't know. Is it any wonder why you can't sell a used Handi, when they are no good when new, let alone used.

Dealer get their rifles from an Importer/distributer in Montreal and he as far as I know wont take the rifle back or exchange it. Every firearm is registered with the dealer and importers. It is a nightmare. In order for a rifle to change hands it has to be de-registered and re-registered to who ever gets the gun.

So once you bought the gun you are stuck with it. The dealer will tell you not to bring it back to him he don't want to see it again. Her also will tell good customers as a warning, quote: Don't buy a piece of junk like a Handi. He don't mind making a buck on it. That is how bad an image the Handi  has in Canada.

One of the big dealeris is more receptive to help and will switch a rifle around if it is still like new? This is hear say. My two Handis never been back to the dealer or the service smith. I can fix them as good as they can.

I can not vouch for what I wrote above is all correct but it is pretty close. There is a whole lot more then that ask H&R they can't send any breels or major part to Canada only to the stocking dealer.

I was surprised that they send me a couple of hammer springs in the mail.

[bladerunner]

Fred m. wrote:

Her also will tell good customers not to buy a piece of junk like a Handi.

have you been drinking lol,J/K but I thought you were a Handi "fan"?  I'm soooooo confused   :?  :-D

[Fred M]

Bladerunner.
Please don't be confused.
It is not me that said that, I was told that in a store. Put on your  your thinking Hat I know better. No Iam not drinking.

Does it sound like I said that, if it does I better re-write it. Yes I did rewrite it. I like my two Handi's but they are far removed from origional.

Like I said above I won't buy another one, until they do something about quality barrels and chambers.
Perhaps I am not much of a Handi fan after all:cry:

But man I love to tear them down and redo every part and change all the springs and a whole lot of other things. Are you still confused? You were not suposed to be. God bless you .

[hylander]

It is unralistic to expect your 55gr VMax to touch the lands at 2.26" OAL in a factory rifle. They have no idea what bullet you are going to use and therefore have to chamber barrels so that they will handle bullets from 35 to 80 grains in weight. I've had quite a few Remington and Ruger rifles and on all of them it was necessary to seat bullets out to 2.35" to 2.40" to touch the lands. But that was not necessary for accuracy. Good factory ammo at 2.25" or a little less still shot under a minute. You want a barrel that is chambered to perfectly fit one bullet, don't expect to get it for $82! Such a custom barrel will cost you $400, and that's not counting the receiver and stock. These guns are GREAT for their price!

I can't get a 55 V-Max bullet near the lands at any OCL
The bullet comes out of the case before it reaches the Lands  :eek:
Accuracy Sucks, but I like this little rifle so I will tweek the Crap out of it.
And despite the long throat you can bet when I'm done it will shoot under MOA with those 55 V-Max and the 40 V-Max.
Never Give Up, Never Surrender  :wink:

[bladerunner]

Fred M.,I was just tryin to add a little humor,I don't really think you've been drinking   :wink:

[jim62]

Hylander..

I am a BIG fan of Hornady Vmax slugs.. so I am rooting for you to come up with a good load for your rifle with them as much as anyone here... :grin:

In most of my rifles they have shot superbly...BUT there are other .22 cal bullets out there-LOTS of them. And many rifles out there PREFER the others to the vmaxes in terms of accuracy. Even I would not be that narrow in my selection of bullets to get a .223 to shoot well- let alone a Handi.

 Hornady makes 50 g Vmaxes, too.... :wink: Who know's? the 50s may be the charm? You will never know unless you try 'em.
 Seirra also makes their "Blitz King" plastic pointed slugs that shoot very well and based ojn the dealer prices I have seen,really don't cost much if any more per box than the Hornadys..Nosler BTs would be a good substitute as well althpough they are a bit more$$.

One thing to keep in perspective here is that no make  or model of rifle is guaranteed to shoot " X" size groups with any particular bullet..I think it is unreasonable of anyone to expect that. Even when shooting guns that cost 5 to 10 times what a Handi rifle does! An OPEN MIND and a POSITIVE ATTITUDE can do as much to get a gun to shoot as anything I know of in this world..


As far as the throats go..many brands of rifles have the long milspec throats in the .223 and .308 rounds..How many Marine Snipers shoot .308 rounds that are handloaded to have the bullets touch the lands?? NONE OF THEM .Yet they have m40A1s (rem 700s) that crowd a half MOA in combat with .308 FMJ Match ball ammo-long throats and all!

I have a buddy that owns an older long action Savage m110 in .223.It has the long milspec throat in it as well.After trying a reasonable number of combos,his load of WW748 behind a Hornady 55g Soft Point shoots right at .5 inch at 100 yards..I know -I have seen him shoot it. That 55g Hornady is about .25" off the lands and that darn gun drives tacks..


And by the way, you might call the factory up and ASK THEM what load they were shooting to get that group with your handi.The group they sent you looks pretty darn reasonable for a $250 rifle shot @ 100 yards with factory ammo(if that was the range it was fired at)..I am willing to bet that group was NOT fired in a machine rest but on their test range with a slave scope mounted and shot off bags.I am about 99% sure there was no test fixture involved and that the barrel was shot with your own reciever..

I have one last question..With the forearm OFF of the barrel and the barrel snapped smartly into battery on that action(locked up) are you telling me that it is loose? Even after the factory fixed it?

A barrel being a bit loose when the barrel is being tilted on the hinge pin is not the same thing as it being loose when locked up smartly(properly)..

[Mac11700]

I can't get a 55 V-Max bullet near the lands at any OCL
The bullet comes out of the case before it reaches the Lands Surprised
Accuracy stinks, but I like this little rifle so I will tweek the Crap out of it.
And despite the long throat you can bet when I'm done it will shoot under MOA with those 55 V-Max and the 40 V-Max.
Never Give Up, Never Surrender Wink

There's a true Handi-holic spirit :agree:

Mac

[hellacatcher]

The nice thing I have found about my XR100 is it shoots all loads I put through it very well and saves alot of tinkering time. Now I do own a closte full of handies.

[tj40]

The barrels are OK, chambers ??.  Had my .223 Ultra rechambered to 22-250, that cleared up the chamber and throat problem. The trigger from the factory was very good.

[rifleman61]

Trotterlg
Just had to "chime in"
I know that someone can get a bad rifle I understand that. H/R manufactures and markets over a quartermillion single shot rifles and shotguns per year.  Allowing even for the tightest of Q/A some are bound to get through; tnhat's just a plain statistical probability that one cannot get around.  Let's assume for sake of discussion .5% [five tenths of one percent], that's still 1250 weapons per year that have some flaw in them fit or finish. I know it really sucks to be you if you're in that universe.
I have never considered price when dealing with weapons or tools; that is an irrelevance to me.  My practice is to consider something I have purchased as good right out of the box and have I have yet to be disappointed.  I also know that every weapon I have ever used and have seen used requires some tweeking and user acquaintance initially.  that goes from a 5"/65 cal. dual purpose naval rifle on a "Burke class" DD right down to a M-14 Supermatch to the "Humble" H/R Handsome [that's what I call them] rifles.  Please forgive me if I seem a little "gung ho"
here.  I shot them for years initially learning the disciplines and arts of competitive shooting and thought it was only me; a single shot rifle is brutally unforgiving; you absolutely observe the fundamentals.  Then my brother-in-law "Topper T" turned me on to this website and low and behold there is a whole universe of H/R users who know the same thing I
do.  Do the proper Navy PMS thing [Planned Maintenance System] when using and maintaining a weapon and everything will be all right.  It takes about 20-30 minutes to clean the bore, maybe about another 1-2 minutes  to proeprly "lube" it at the critical points. Then put it away.  the time you have left you can spedn planning your shootiong strategy at your next range session, or "skulling" up some good handloads.

Anchor's Away/Semper Fi
CPO Bull

[hylander]

I have one last question..With the forearm OFF of the barrel and the barrel snapped smartly into battery on that action(locked up) are you telling me that it is loose? Even after the factory fixed it?

No:
With the barrel locked into place barrel to receiver fit is tight front to rear.
The play is in the barrel lug to receiver fit, side to side.
Where the Lug sits inside the frame it has several thousands of play.
Over .025 at the rear of the Lug, this allows for the barrel to rotate inside the frame when a round is fired. This is detramental to accuracy.
I sent very detailed desciptions and Photos explaining this.
I will make permanate shims and all will be well.

[cheatermk3]

To eliminate the rotational play you're talking about you'll have to bed the lug in the frame.  Fred has detailed this procedure in one of his posts.  It ought to be in the stickies if it's not already there.

[quickdtoo]

Fred's web site can be found by clicking the WWW at the bottom of any of his posts, it's also listed in the FAQ under Accurizing and Barrel fitting.

Tim

[hylander]

Yepper's, Fred is where I got the Idea to shim the Lug area.
Thanks Fred
I forgot where I saw the Idea, It made a world of differancs in Accuracy.
I did not make the shim's perminate the first time, This time I will.
Again Thanks Fred for your Posting of the Accuracy Tip's.

[corelokt308win]

Hey Frem M,
  How about a seperate post detailing exactly the what's and how's in regards to what you've done to tune-up your handi's?
  I'm a curious sort and an inveterate tinkerer and would like to know.

[corelokt308win]

Oh, and I meant to say that while I've always been treated politely by customer service, even when I sent my last 50 cal in because I couldn't get it to shoot and turns out it was the cleanshot powder that had sat around half used for a year.  They still give you a different answer everythime you call: No, we don't have that, Yes, we have that, etc.

[quickdtoo]

Hey Frem M,
  How about a seperate post detailing exactly the what's and how's in regards to what you've done to tune-up your handi's?
  I'm a curious sort and an inveterate tinkerer and would like to know.

Fred's web site can be found by clicking the WWW at the bottom of any of his posts, it's also listed in the FAQ under Accurizing and Barrel fitting.

Tim