shooting 44 Mag in the 445?

[thomas]

I have heard some on this forum say they shoot 44 Mags in their 445 super mags. I just read this note claiming it should NOT be done.
Is it Safe?
This is a reprint of what I read
Thanks for the help
tom


445 Super Magnum

Historical Notes:

The challenge of knocking down metallic silhouettes at ranges of 200 meters with a handgun requires considerable momentum and energy. Elgin Gates designed the 445 Super Magnum with this task in mind. The cartridge is essentially a 44 Magnum case with approximately 3/8 inch added to the overall length. As is the case with the 44 Magnum, the name is somewhat misleading as it uses bullets of .429 inch diameter. The 445 Super Magnum however, can drive the same bullets nearly 300 fps faster than the 44 Magnum. Dan Wesson Arms Co. is the only company manufacturing a production gun for this cartridge. And Starline Brass Co. is the only company producing brass. Custom loaded ammunition is available from various custom loading companies.

General Comments:

Due to the pressures involved and the overall length of the cartridge, guns chambered for this cartridge tend to be somewhat large and heavy. This has proved to be a very accurate cartridge and a fine performer with bullets weighing up to 300 grains. There is a price to pay for such performance and it comes in the form of considerable muzzle blast and recoil. The barrel compensator on some Wesson firearms has tamed this cartridge considerably, reducing its recoil to that of a 44 Magnum. For those willing to put up with the muzzle blast and recoil, this caliber could prove to be an excellent choice for competition silhouette shooting or handgun hunting of large game. With more and more bullet manufacturers producing heavy jacketed bullets in this caliber of 300 grains and up, this cartridge can really come into its own.

A note of caution may be advised here. Different guns reach maximum loads at different rates. While some work comfortably at the maximum loads listed in loading manuals, others peak out well before this.
As with any load, work up to maximum loads with care. The case is a shortened 444 Marlin and is not safe to shoot 44 Magnums in guns so chambered.

Source: Cartridges of the World

[BCB]

tom,

I believe if you check the case dimensions of the 44 Magnum, the 445 Super Magnum, and the 444 Marlin, you will find the 445 SM is just  a 44 Magnum but is 0.325” longer.  The 444 Marlin has a different rim thickness and the width of the brass directly in front of the rim is 0.014” wider.  The 445 SM case is actually based on the 30-40 Krag or the 303 British case if I have read and understand it correctly.  I suspose, technically, there could be a headspace problem in that the rim thicknesses of the Krag and British (0.004" thicker) are a bit different than the 44 Magnum.  

I am not disputing the article you quoted, but I have a 445 SM that is a rechamber job from a 44 Magnum and I do shoot 44 Magnum rounds in it with good accuracy.  Sometimes the accuracy is as good as the 445 SM round.  Go figure!!!

I guess if you are strictly going on the article you quoted, you best not shoot 44 Magnum rounds in your 445 SM.  Good-luck…BCB

[thomas]

So what is the Saftey Issue if any?
Tom

[KN]

I believe the problem you are refering to is called ringing a chamber. Been known to happen with high power loads in a shorter than normal case. Burns a small groove at the front of the shorter case causing the longer cases to get stuck in the camber after firing. It's not usually a problem with 38spl in a 357, or 44spl in a 44mag because they are not that hot of a round. Although I have seen some posters that said it has happened.    KN

[spinafish]

Most loading manuals state that one should not try to" down load" the .445 to .44 mag level..instead it is preferred that one uses .44 mag ammo instead.  I think the cartridges of the world description is wrong..I had the same book and noticed it some time back..back have several articles in the gun rags about using .44 mag ammo in the .445.  One article even when as far as to say that the author had a very small amount of .445 ammo on hand so he used .44 mag for his test..and that particular .44 mag ammo showed better accuracy than the Dan Wesson headstamped ammo that came with the revolver he was testing...go figure..

[RollTide]

I think what the writer of the article failed to realize is that while some early iterations of the 445 were made from shortened 444 brass, it also had to be turned in a lathe to cut  it down to 44 mag case dimensions.  Of course this was way too much trouble since you could just use 30/40 or 303 brass as another poster mentioned.  This article has caused quite a lot of confusion about the cartridge and has certainly NOT helped it gain popularity.

[thomas]

First TCs custom shop says NO do not do it. Slight but scary chance of a Barrel blow up if you shoot a Super mag after many 44 rounds.
OK as far as making cases from 30/40? or 303?
NOPE! The rim is much larger and and the brass is thinner so that is not an OPTION.
As far as Bullberry and Van Horn? they both suggest against it.
Thanks for all the replies.
Tom