Author Topic: What have I done wrong? (Read 949 times)

mikemayberry · « **on:** January 17, 2006, 06:33:14 PM »

Loaded my first ever .223 Rem the other night and all went well--or so I thought.

Full length sized new Remington brass. Spot checked the length with a Lee length guage and didn't find any too long.

Added powder and seated bullets to overall length acceptable for my Encore.

Now the problem: about 1/3 of those loaded are unwilling to go the last 1/4 inch into the barrel and it feels as though they are too fat at the base to go that last distance. On a few, seating the bullet a bit deeper has let them go on in but cannot tell for sure where the hangup is.

Using Lee dies and am enough of a beginner on rifle reloading to not know where I either erred. The ones that go in normally seem fine.

Have not shot any of these yet but plan to this weekend. Absent a better idea, I will pull bullets on the trouble rounds and pop primers and try again I guess.

Can anyone offer help with what I did wrong or a better solution?

Thanks,

Mike

ricciardelli · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2006, 08:35:08 PM »

If seating the bullet deeper solved the problem, then you know what oyu have to do.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2006, 10:32:30 PM »

you are more then likely dealing with a tight chamber and will need to small base size the brass with a small base sizing die. You can also try giving you lee die another 1/4 turn down into the press but be careful your not setting the shoulder back.

Questor · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2006, 02:58:42 AM »

Something sounds very wrong. If your gauges are telling you that all is well, and there's a problem like that, then you really need to check whether your equipment is correct. I'd say stop what you're doing and try to get some help from somebody who knows reloading, or at least compare your cartridges to a factory cartridge to see where the trouble is. In any case, this kind of uncertainty can get you into a lot of trouble in reloading. Stop. Find out what's wrong. Prove that it's wrong. Correct the process.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2006, 08:44:22 AM »

A trick that i have used for years is to set up my seating die with a factory round and then load one to that set up .

Then double check the OL to be sure that the bullet has seated to the factory OL .

Steve is right that if when you seat the pullet deeper this fixes the problem then what i'd say is that the OL for your chamber may be just a tad short or your OL load is just a tad long for your chamber .

I'd check this before doing anything drastic , You may also check that you are indead sizing the full case . It may be a case of not having the die screwed down enough to FL size the brass .

Hope this helps , and if you have someone around that loads you may want to have them look over the set up to make sure that you have not missed anything .

beemanbeme · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2006, 11:14:36 AM »

If you started out with new brass then the case size shouldn't be a problem. I've never had new brass that wouldn't fit into a saami cut chamber.
Take one of your new cases that hasn't been charged nor a bullet seated and see if it fits into your chamber. If it does, then load a dummy round (no powder, just a bullet) and see if it fits. If it doesn't, then blacken the bullet with a sharpie and try it again. You will probably get marks on the bullet where you are seating into the lands. Turn your SEATER STEM down, not your die, a half turn and re-blacken the bullet and try again. When you get to where you're not getting marks and the action closes, then you have the proper col of that rifle.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2006, 11:28:24 AM »

You may have your seater dies set to low and it is over crimping the round causing it to bulge the case.

tvc15 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2006, 12:10:11 PM »

I have a .270 bolt action that will not chamber some factory rounds. Started reloading and found out I need to use federal or frontier brass. Talked to a gunsmith and he said better tight than loose. TVC15

Catfish · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2006, 01:35:45 PM »

Mike,
I would guess that you did not full lenth size your brass and those that were larger than your sizeing die have a ring where you stopped sizeing them. When full lenth sizeing you want to set your sizeing die so that it makes contact with the shell holder when it goes over top. If you do not it will leave a ring in your brass where you stopped sizeing. Set your sizeing die so that you can fell a small amount of resistance when you pull the handle down without a case in the press.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2006, 05:59:20 PM »

mikemayberry -

How did you determine they are the correct length for your gun? Sounds to me like thay are too long.

Steve P · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2006, 09:16:58 PM »

Quote from: PA-Joe

You may have your seater dies set to low and it is over crimping the round causing it to bulge the case.

This is very possible. Set your seater die by screwing down on sized .223 brass then back off 1/2 to 1 complete turn. Then reset your seating stem.

Steve

Steve P · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2006, 09:23:17 PM »

Quote from: Coyote Hunter

mikemayberry -

How did you determine they are the correct length for your gun? Sounds to me like thay are too long.

This is very possible also. You can blacken the bullet with sharpie as per prior post. You can also use a sized, unprimed, no powder brass and seat a bullet, smoke with birthday candle and slowly seat bullet deeper until round loads with no black removed from the bullet.

OAL for a bullet with one ogive may not be the same for similar size bullet with different ogive. Ogive is the curve or taper of the bullet. Some bullets are long with gradual taper. Some bullets are short with quick or abrupt taper. They could be seated to same over all length but fit totally different in the rifling and in the chamber.

Steve

jgalar · « **Reply #12 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:50:06 AM »

You can make a maximum case length tool that will work with any gun and any bullet. All you need is a cleaning rod, 2 cleaning rod stops and a flattened tip.
Take an old jag and file it down so it is flat at the tip. Take the 2 cleaning rod stops and measure their thickness and lightly file them so they are the same.
With the action closed install one cleaning rod stop on the cleaning rod and insert into the muzzle. Tighten the cleaning rod stop flat on the muzzle.
Open the action and drop the bullet you intend to load into the chamber and lightly seat it into the rifling. Put the second cleaning rod stop onto the cleaning rod and gently insert into the muzzle. With the cleaning rod resting on the bullet tighten down the cleaing rod stop at the muzzle.
With your calipers, measure across the outside of both stops and subtract the thickness of one stop. This will give you the maximum length for that bullet in that gun.
Unless you are shooting cast bullets you need to reduce the length so that your bullets are not seated at the rifling.

PA-Joe · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2006, 02:17:17 AM »

Did you try chambering a new unsized brass to see if that fits? Ussually you do not have to size new brass. We all do it. If you can chamber an unsized case then we are doing something wrong!

Questor · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2006, 03:07:24 AM »

I recommend getting some factory ammo to see if there are feeding problems with that. If there aren't, then there's something very wrong with your process or your equipment, or your data, or your understanding of what needs to be done.

mikemayberry · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2006, 02:06:39 PM »

I have read with interest what each of you suggested and after being away from the problem for several days, went back to look.

Known facts:

1. Full length sized brass fits perfectly.

2. OAL is fine and that was just something I thought might be the problem but it is not. Further seating the bullet was not helping on the problem rounds.

3. Each of the round that will not chamber has a bulge around the shoulder right where it widens back to full size. It is barely noticeable but it is there. It is not a dimple in but it is a bulge out and it must be preventing the case from entering the last 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

4. All cases were lubed but not excessively for resizing and none of the other 50 that are ready to receive bullets have the problem. To me this indicates the problem has occurred while seating the bullets.

5. I chamfered the cases inside and out after sizing but before seating bullets.

6. I did not lube the inside lube the necks.

7. Reminder that this is new brass that was full length sized.

8. My conclusion is that it happened while seating SOME bullets (20 out of 50) and the ones with problems pressed down on the case causing this slight bulge.

9. Help me understand why.

10. I will pull bullets soon and try to full length resize these 20 unless you think they may be weakened and dangerous to now use.

Thanks to all of you have helped.

Mike

Cowpox · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2006, 03:28:34 PM »

Hi mikemayberry, I think you are correct about your problem happening while seating the bullet. I would guess that you have your seating die turned down to where you are applying the crimp while seating the bullet. The small cases for .223 are too fragile to seat and crimp in one opperation. Every once in a while, the crimp will get a firm grip on the bullet before it is seated all the way, so the shoulder gets moved back, causing the bulge you describe. Turn the locking ring on your seating die down a turn or two. This will raise the die, so you are no longer crimping. turn the seating stem down to get your correct O.A.L., and the bulges should go away. If you want a crimp, you will have to turn your seating die back down to use the seating ring, but be sure to turn the seating stem up until it will not contact the bullet while crimping.

babe915 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2006, 05:42:42 PM »

cowpox is right you are seating and crimping too much which bumps the
shoulder back and stops it from chambering. this happened to me a few
years back, I only seat the bullet with no crimp [read the instruction sheet
that came with the dies] I now use lee's competition dies that seats with
no crimp and they are exact length every time. I only use them in my bolt action
rifles so no crimp is needed. load thousands a year for varmint shooting
with no problem

Blammer · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2006, 07:03:41 PM »

Yep, your seating die is turned down too far, it is crimping and bulging the shoulder cause it's crimping too much or something.

to fix, back off the seating die about 1/2 to 3/4 turn, then lock down and then adjust your bullet seater.

should be good to go.

mikemayberry · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:33:36 PM »

Thanks to all who helped on this. I seem to do better with straight wall at this level of my reloading career.

You guys nailed the problem though--I pulled bullets and full length resized the 20 rounds that would not chamber. Tested a bit along the way and after setting the die not to crimp (or to do so just a little) everything works fine.

The old adage of a little is good and a lot is better does not work with reloading in so many ways!

One last thought--in choosing my bullet puller I bought the RCBS bullet puller die and will never look back. Was able to save my powder and no muss/no fuss. Cannot imagine the mess I would have had with one of those $16 hammer type pullers.

Thank you all again and Steve, thanks for the private response!

Mike M