Author Topic: 35 Remington fans, Please compare to 308 (Read 2478 times)

rich5674 · « **on:** February 05, 2006, 02:27:42 AM »

I've been busting my butt trying to find oneof those Remington 7600s carbine with the synthic stock in 35 remington to no success. Icould just walk into Wallmart ond buyone in .308 for $389. Is the 35 worth the trouble finding? is there any real hunting advantage to the 35 over the 308 talking deer and maybe hogs to150yds,

Gregory · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2006, 04:32:33 AM »

The 308 is a ballistically superior round.

Compare for yourself:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/

rich5674 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2006, 05:31:12 AM »

I read that text book ballistics don't always tell the tale.

nomosendero · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2006, 07:29:11 AM »

As Gregory pointed out, the 308 is a ballistically superior round, this is not
like comparing a 308 & a 7-08 or 270 vs 280. This is not even close.

That being said, in your limited application that you asked about, Deer &
maybe Hogs to 150 yards, the 35 will work. When I look at 2 different rounds like this , I think in terms of what each round will give me or the
pros & cons of both. This is directly tied to the gun I will use it in as well.
The 35Rem. has a place for some & it makes sense for example if you want to use a Marlin lever, it is made for that gun & other light weight
guns. One guy I knew had a Marlin with the half mag. tube & he cut his
barrel down & it was very neat.

But with you asking about 35 vs 308 & both in the same gun, a Rem pump,
I just don't see the reason to buy a 35. Both guns will weigh close to the
same amt., they will handle the same, etc.
Here are some pluses of the 308.
(1) Much more ammo types available & in many weights, premium & standard.
(2) Ammo on sale many times in discount stores after season
(3) Cheap military ammo on sale at gun shows & mail order
(4) Much more in the way of reloader components & loading data
(5) Due to more refined bullets, much more accurate.
(6) You listed 150 yard, but if you ever wanted to extend your range,
even if only by 100-150 yards, forget about the 35.
(7) If you ever wanted to hunt Elk & Moose, the 308 is fine with the correct bullets & out to Medium ranges. The 35 could do this, but only
up close & why be marginal & not be able to shoot them at 250 or so
like you could with a 308?
(

If you ever wanted to target shoot, the pump will never win a match,
but you could go with the 308 if yours shoots & shoots groups at 300
or 400 yards for fun, forget about the 35.

It just is too one sided if you are locked in to the Rem. Pump, go get that
308!!!
Good Shooting

azmike · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2006, 07:46:37 AM »

As much as I like my .35, I have to agree with nomosendero.

If I had to choose between .35 Remington or .308 as my only rifle, I would get the .308. But, if I already had a rifle in a good all around caliber (in the 308-270-7mm class), I would look for a .35, just for something different.

YMMV

Regards,
Mike

killdeer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2006, 07:47:23 AM »

rich5674,
for 150 yds or less, the 35 Rem is a fine choice.
I think you will find larger caliber bullets make a bigger impression on game than higher velocity smaller calibers.
I believe Graybeard once said, and I am quoting him loosely, "The 35 Rem kills out of proportion to it's paper ballistics".
Thats endorsement enough for me. Perhaps he will elaborate further or correct me if I am mistaken.
Wal-Mart keeps a catologue of firearms at the sporting goods counter they can order for you and it is quite extensive. Might be a good place to start if you shop there.
Don't know if it's available in synthetic at all but you can always purchase the synthetic stock seperately and keep or sell the wood.
The .35 Rem along with the 35 Whelan was manufactuered as a special run in 2005 for Grice Gun shop. They have a web site. That may be the easiest place to find one.
If you decide you want more velocity the 35 Whelan is another option and is based on the 30-06 case.
Hope this helps.

KD

nomosendero · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2006, 08:34:34 AM »

Let's see: 308 with 200 Gr. Bullet 2,450 FPS
35REM with 200 Gr. 2,050

Sectional Density 200/308= .301= extreme penetration
200/.35= .223= penetration is adaquate for application stated but inadaquate in angle shots on bigger animals at reasonasble yardages.
Again, in the confines of you original statement, either will work.

I agree that the 35 kills if not out of proportion at least it will do what you expect & a little more, thus fitting the term. But I hope that no one is saying that this means the 35Rem. kills better than the 308, because
frankly it will not. Don't expect any data to roll in to prove that one.

The only thing that the 35 has is a good frontal dia. 35 cal., but a heavy
bullet of 30 cal fired faster than the 35Rem. can will expand to a dia.
similar to the slow expanded 35 & still have enough shank left to still give better penetration, thus making this a mute point unless a bigger round like the the 35 Whelen is used, then the tables would be turned. The powder capacity of the 35 Rem is too small to compete & Oh, if you want
to shoot a low recoil round in the 308, uou can load down or buy the
"managed recoil" stuff.

Buy what you want as both will do what you asked for in the beginning,
but I know that if you buy the 308, you will have access to cheap ammo
& will shoot it more & I was just trying to help. If you have other guns to
practice with, this is not as important & you did not say.
Again with the 2 rounds being used in the same gun, I just do't see the
advantage of a 35, but if you just want one, that is reason enough.

Slamfire · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2006, 10:20:22 AM »

Compare a .358 with the .308. :wink:

Daks · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2006, 10:26:40 AM »

The .35R has been killing deer and bear up here in the mountains for many many years. The .308 kills them just as dead. I've never hunted hogs so I don't know what is important when choosing a caliber for that animal.

In my section of the world, the choice is six of one, half dozen of the other for hunters going after deer or bear. Lots of fans of both.

How dead do you want the animal to be? After a while, the "charts" are sorta meaningless, at least to me. Both rounds kill game very satisfactorily.

I bought a 35Whelan from Grice's last year. Mine came with a walnut stock. I don't remember if I had the choice of a synthetic or not. Very nice people to deal with. I'd recommend them highly.

From my perspective, though, I'd use the .308 as my bread and butter gun over the .35R. Cheap ammo, good selection of bullet weights, very accurate - just a real utility round. I shoot a .30-06 for the same reasons. Both are just the cherries and the berries for a guy who wants a "do-all" gun.

rich5674 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:09:16 PM »

I got it! I know about Grices latest issue but they are expensive compare to the synthetic stock versions from last year. The reason I asked the question is I'm well aquainted with the 308 having had 3 but am not happy with the report and recoil from the carbine I am seeking. I thought I could duplicate the knock down without the kick. I think a 7600 in 308 for $389 new it is if I dont easily find the 35. PS I had a 35 Whelen 700 Classic, decided it was way too much for deer. I have a good selection of 308 caliber bullets in round nose, flatnose and spitzer hanging around to load good "brush busters"with, Thanks.

Gregory · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:34:15 PM »

Quote from: rich5674

I thought I could duplicate the knock down without the kick. I think a 7600 in 308 for $389 new it is if I dont easily find the 35. Thanks.

You can always load the 308 down to 300 Savage or even 30/30 levels to cut down on recoil. I don't think the deer would notice much, inside of 150 yds.
Heck, you could have loaded that 35 Whelen down too!

Ratltrap · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2006, 02:14:59 PM »

I'm a .308 fan and I'll agree that it has the better ballistics, but not as much of a margin as some here are saying. In my experience you can't (safely) handload .308s much better than many commercial loads while most commercial loads for the 35 rem are pretty anemic for use in a 7600. The Buffalo Bore 220 grain load at 2200 fps is an exception and I've seen well tested 200 grain handload ballistics to 2350 fps from a 24" barrel. Considering the differences in caliber and using proper handloads and comparable bullets, I'd say they are pretty equal out to 200 yards or so.

Up close I prefer the 35.

nomosendero · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2006, 04:08:59 PM »

Ratltrap
Man, that sure is moving for a 35 Rem, 2,350 with a 24" barrel(22" would not matter much in this bore). I am curious, what source is that. Also, in
such a limited case cap. as the 35Rem., I believe that you would have to
load a round nose, otherwise the bullet would be longer & have to be seated deeper, therefore the round nose would be quite slow at 200 in
the 35. Of course, the mag on the pump might allow it, but the throat may not.
If you match hot load for hot load, you just can't compare the 2.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:22:10 PM »

Buffalo Bore's data on the .35 rem is in an 18½" barrel....

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#35rem

nomosendero · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:43:03 PM »

Quick, I did not question the Buffalo Data & the barrel lenght makes a difference, but not as much as most cartridges because of the medium bore & small case, you just won't gain much with a longer barrel in this bore & case capacity.
If you look at my post, the part that I question is the 2,350fps even with a 24" barrel which you would not have with the pump anyway. Also, as I said in my last post, you would need a round nose in order to have a short
bullet due to powder capacity just like the Buffalo load, which is a flat nose. When you do that, the velocities of the 2 rounds at 200 yards will
not compare, as the 308 can be a spitzer. Plus the difference in velocity
between these two rounds are going to be 250 FPS to 300 FPS with the
200 GR. with equal pressures.
I have no problem with the 35Rem. but this is an apples to oranges comparison no matter how we approach it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:54:49 PM »

That's interesting to know, I'm having my .357 Max handi barrel rechambered to .35 rem right now, but due to the slow twist rate of 1:18¾", I'll probably not be able to shoot anything bigger than a 200gr spitzer, if that....but it will be fun to find out! :lol:

Tim

nomosendero · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2006, 06:00:21 PM »

I was talking about the velocity with the 250 versus seating depth with
Spitzers, not stability of the 200 GR. we were talking about 2 different
things.

rich5674 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2006, 06:20:12 PM »

35 or 308 or my 260 I like Roundnose bullets, at my distance (under 100yd) I think they are better killers. Less deflection through brush AND flesh,(staighter penetration)Where I hunt, a deer that runs 100yds could be either that much deeper in the swamp or shot by another hunter, Thats why I;m looking for good knockdown and quick kill.

handirifle · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2006, 08:29:31 PM »

Rich
My suggestion, unless you just want another gun (that's OK too :wink: ) is to load down the 308 you have and use round nose heavy bullets. A 200gr RN bullet at 2000 to 2100 is right at 35R ballistics and recoil, but you'll better penetration. Only thing I'm not sure of is if the 200gr RN will expand reliably at those velocities. Maybe one designed for 30-30's.

Another option is rebarrel a 308 to 358 Win and load it down to 35R levels using the 200gr RN bullets that are designed for the 35R.

I am going to do this same thing except with the Whelen you mentioned. I plan on using the low power loads for deer and still have the option to load up for elk. More trigger time with the same rifle = better shot with said rifle. I MAY end up doing what I suggested for you, except with my '06. Still not sure, that 35 cal is sure inviting. :grin:

rich5674 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2006, 12:06:17 PM »

I have found that most of the time the most accurate loads are near the top, when loaded down, accuracy went down slightly. No biG deal for hunting in close quarters. In my 35 Whelen, Hornady 180gn SSP bullets shot well then I tried to push in that direction with Remington 150gn pointed and accuracy was poor. Like I said, If I dont find the 35 easily I;ll go for the 308. One other thing, with factory ammo, a 35 is not bad out of a carbine barrel, a 308 is a howitzer and flame thrower. 308 loaded down to 300 Savage will be BALLISTIC LOVE!

Ratltrap · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2006, 01:18:40 PM »

Quote from: nomosendero

Man, that sure is moving for a 35 Rem

nomosendero - I agree, but again speed isn't the whole story here. Hot load vs hot load, given comparable bullets I still don't think there can be much difference on game out to 200 yards. I'll give the .308 everything past that though.

I can't post a link because that board has been down the past couple days, but when you get a chance look at what "35remington" on the Marlinowners board is doing. You are probably right that the load could be hard to duplicate with a spitzer since the posted data is heavily compressed with a RN.

jbadams66 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2006, 04:14:06 PM »

The .35 rem is a pretty fun cartridge. I have just started playing with it. I can definatly see getting 2350 fps out of a 24" barrel. They are probably over book max but you have to decide if that is alright with you. The 336 action can handle the .30-30 which runs up about 42000 psi ( not sure if its psi or cup, will have to check) Now the .35 rem is held down to a max of about 32000psi for the old auto loaders. I really wish that someone would pressure test some loads that can take the .35 up to about 42000psi same as the 30-30 or 44000 psi like on the .444. The 336 was also chambered for .356 and .375 that took pressure up to about 52000 psi.

I was working up loads awhile back and probably pushed harder then I should have but never got any pressure signs from the gun (smooth extraction). One of my load barely over 2300 fps with a 200 gr. corlokt (avg was about 2295 or so) This was out of a 20" barrel. I would not advise trying this due to the fact I was over published max. I only shot the load to test it and use a load that is about 2200fps.
To some this is wrong to try and shouldnt be done but for me it was either this or a wildcat in which I wouldnt have any published info at all.

I think I got off subject a little but if you want a small close range gun for about 150 yards get a .35 rem. If you want to try a little farther shot go with the .308.

jimmyp50 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2006, 03:17:42 AM »

You guys got me thinking, I am ordering a new Remington 750 auto with 18.5 inch barrel in 35 Whelen, this thing may be a cannon in the woods!

JD338 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2006, 08:48:03 AM »

The 308 Win will give you more flexability than the 35 Rem but what is overlooked is the larger frontal area of the 35 Cal.
You might want to consider the M7600 in 35 Whelen. This is a real step up in power over the 308. You have the larger frontal area of a .358 cal bullet and more velocity and energy.
The 35 Whelen is a true thumper for any game in NA to 300 yds.

I have a M700 Classic in 35 Whelen. It has taken many WT deer and a bear.
Regards,

JD338

victorcharlie · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2006, 03:26:47 AM »

Quote from: jimmyp50

You guys got me thinking, I am ordering a new Remington 750 auto with 18.5 inch barrel in 35 Whelen, this thing may be a cannon in the woods!

I'm in SE Tennessee and although I probably won't have the need for a Whelen but I'd love to get with you and shoot it as it's one of those cartridges I'd love to have out west and have thought it would make a great elk or moose round.

I hunt a .35 Remington most of the time around here, or a 45.70. let me know if you'ld like to try it and I'll meet you at the rifle club.........

The great thing about the .35 Remington is it really does have relatively low recoil and great killing ability. I don't consider myself to be recoil intolerant but I barely notice the .35's recoil. It's plenty for the hardwoods around here.

The .308 is in a different class and is ballistically far superior to the .35 remington. That said, in my application, I don't think you'll find a better round than the .35 Remington.