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Author Topic: 357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of  (Read 769 times)

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Offline sticker

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« on: February 08, 2006, 02:19:31 PM »
I have been running not really a debate but a discussion of the pros and cons of the above mentioned rounds.
I really don't know why it isn't between the Herret and Remington rounds as they are almost balliistic twins.... except for the case forming work (Herret) and the reported ignition problems but factory availibity of brass status (35rem), but it comes to rechambering a max to a rem.

Is it reasonable to stae that the Maximum will do at least 80% of the 35rem?  Stated that off my sleeve.... do that sometimes.

Want all members opinion ,no matter the outcome, as like in gun mags of old..... everyone is right in their own right.

I guess y'all can tell I'm a little bias t'ward the little max, but love the ol' 35 'cause it is a good round. But........ I would'nt rechamber ANYTHING already chambered in the Max for the 150 fps you may gain.. not to metion headache of headspace problems some have had.   NOTE SOME!


just trying to get a good interesting thread going for Ol' Greybeard to keep Y'all coming back to put me straight! lol



Sticker
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Offline Gregory

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2006, 02:30:00 PM »
Well, here's a simple plus for the 357 Max.  In Illinois you can't deer hunt with a bottlenecked handgun cartridge with an OAL greater than 1.4".  Any straight walled cartridge however, is legal.

Easy choice for me.
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Offline Neutron

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357 max vs 35 rem
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2006, 03:42:26 PM »
Max gives basically the same performance as the 35 rem.   The 35 might have a slight edge with the heaviest bullets.  The Max does it with less powder and with a straight walled case that you can use carbide dies with (no lubing required).  One of the sponsers, Reed's, even sells some 357 max ammo.  The max is more efficient in a pistol.  Less powder = less kick and less blast.
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Offline Neutron

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357 max vs 35 rem
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2006, 03:54:18 PM »
357 Max = straight walled = carbide dies = no lube

35 Rem = bottle neck = std. dies = have to lube = hassle

If I remember right the max is pretty much equal to the 35 remington except for maybe with 200 gr bullets assuming you use the same length barrel.  Its been a while since I looked at 35 rem data but I think with 180gr bullets the max is better than 80% of the 35 rem.  The max uses a lot less powder so it kicks less and has less muzzle blast.
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Offline PaulS

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2006, 05:19:05 PM »
The 357 Maximum is a straight wall case +
it is capable of shooting a 180 grain bullet at 1850

The 35 Remington is a bottleneck case -
it is capable of shooting the same 180 grain bullet at 2250

The maximum has my vote but then I have a 358 Winchester that will out perform both with any bullet weight. I just don't like shooting bottleneck cases in Contenders. It always seems to be more work than it is worth in my experience.
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Offline Steve P

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2006, 07:38:07 PM »
Another vote for the Max.   I can shoot 210 grain bullets over 1300 fps.  Good for most North American game out to 100 yards.  Some even beyond that.  All with minimal recoil.

Steve   :D
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Offline Hopalong7

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2006, 02:59:07 AM »
I don't think anybody has mentioned barrel length yet.  In a 10" barrel, all the aforementioned pluses for the Max come in spades.  I don't think I've ever fired a 10" .35Rem, but I CAN spell muzzle blast.  In 14" barrel it becomes a much better comparison.  I've been a well entrenched Herret fan for years and my question has always been whether to carry the Max or Herret.  Even though I've had a couple of .35Rem's they never really entered my equation.  My solution to your problem would be...keep the Max...get a .375Win for more power if needed. GOOD SHOOTIN', Walt  :-D  :-D  :-D
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Offline Lone Star

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Re: 357 max vs 35 rem
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 03:48:44 AM »
Quote
357 Max = straight walled = carbide dies = no lube

35 Rem = bottle neck = std. dies = have to lube = hassle
I like this better:

.357: size in carbide die + expand mouth + seat bullet = 3 different dies

.35 Rem: neck size (no lube) + seat bullet = just 2 dies = Easier Reloading.   :wink:

You can do this if you don't push the .35 Remington to its top performance levels, just back off 100 fps.  You can still exceed .357 Maxi performance and neck size only for easier reloading.  In fact, this is the preferred method for the .35 so as not to set back the shoulder.  You can purchase factory ammo in .35 Remington very easily - try that with the Maxi.   :wink:

In a 10" barrel it is no contest - use the Maxi.  In a 14" barrel, the .35 is superior IME.

.
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Offline Lone Star

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2006, 04:14:50 AM »
Quote
 In Illinois you can't deer hunt with a bottlenecked handgun cartridge with an OAL greater than 1.4".  Any straight walled cartridge however, is legal.
Better read the regs more closely.  Here is what they really say:

"For handguns, a bottlenecked centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding 1.4 inches, or a straightwalled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger, both of which must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle"

This rules out several straightwalled loads (the .32 and some .357 Magnum loads) and brings the legality of the Maxi into doubt.  Neither Remington nor Federal load the Maxi anymore, so do the few (if any) small loading firms meet the IL requirements of "factory load"?  The Maxi might be outlawed in Illinois by the same rules you cited.   :D

[BTW, most states use the 1.4" case length as a minimum case length.  Does anyone know if this is a midprint in the IL game laws?]

.
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Offline flyfisher

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2006, 06:08:36 AM »
Gonna have to agree with Lone Star...with a 10" barrel, the .357 Max. has my vote.  With a 14" barrel, the 35 Rem. has my vote.  I know that it's off topic, but I still prefer the .375 Win. over both (mine is a 14").  

If you're worried about Regs. involving the use of handguns and their appropriate calibers, move here to PA...we don't have any of those silly rules regarding handguns and cartridge length, caliber, etc.(with the exception of semi's) .....yet.
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Offline sticker

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2006, 01:03:45 PM »
Well, I'd call that a pretty good thread. Here in Arkansas, all our regs specify is that the shortarm be of 9mm min and a barrel length of 4". Rules in alot of very marginal rounds. (I could be in err on the regs as they change by the year and it usually take one with a law degree to cipher 'em anyhow.) My stance on either round is not the case that holds the bullet, powder. primer....It is the fact that 35 cal is just a good killer outside of anything written typed or slobered onto paper, pixel or rock. Cartridges Of The World (while it's a 2nd bible to me of sorts) damns the Max as a wounder. I'm just glad there's people that use experience in the field over media hype or criticizm.. whatever the case may be.

I have however concidered the 375 back when you could get one... I saw several of you are shooting it.  Hows brass to get? Recoil? Velocity? Is it a TC barrel or custom? I'd like y'all to hang a hankerin' on me to buy one, but it'll take a little coaxin' as it is about 10 on my "to buy someday" list.

Also, y'all shooting the winchester version or one of the customs like JDJ?

Sticker
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Offline Gregory

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2006, 01:25:42 PM »
Quote from: Lone Star
Quote
 In Illinois you can't deer hunt with a bottlenecked handgun cartridge with an OAL greater than 1.4".  Any straight walled cartridge however, is legal.
Better read the regs more closely.  Here is what they really say:

"For handguns, a bottlenecked centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding 1.4 inches, or a straightwalled centerfire cartridge of .30 caliber or larger, both of which must be available as a factory load with the published ballistic tables of the manufacturer showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle"

This rules out several straightwalled loads (the .32 and some .357 Magnum loads) and brings the legality of the Maxi into doubt.  Neither Remington nor Federal load the Maxi anymore, so do the few (if any) small loading firms meet the IL requirements of "factory load"?  The Maxi might be outlawed in Illinois by the same rules you cited.   :D

[BTW, most states use the 1.4" case length as a minimum case length.  Does anyone know if this is a midprint in the IL game laws?]

.



so do the few (if any) small loading firms meet the IL requirements of "factory load"?

In my definition they do.  I'll argue that to a judge if a CO disputes it.  And yes I did in my haste, not spell out the letter of the law as far as energy or caliber, but I'm well aware of it.

Does anyone know if this is a midprint in the IL game laws?
Not a misprint, they are trying to restrict the range.  Don't agree with it.  
Nearby Indiana allows  30/06 as long as it's in a handgun.

Thanks
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Offline determined451

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006, 02:16:36 PM »
35 Rem... I have  not had any ignition problems...mostly just load new cases and play....I love the 180 gr. SSp..D451
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Offline Steve E

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357 Max or 35 Rem...........debate..sort of
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006, 03:45:54 PM »
Let see here:

The 35 Rem usually will out run the Max with just about any bullet weight.
It takes only a 2 die set to reload.
It can be had in off the shelf Lever actions rifles.
Brass is relatively easy to get.
It's an older(read nostalgic/classic)  round
It's proven itself for years

All that being said my 35 Rem Marlin rests in the back of my safe and I vote for the 357 Maxi. I really love it in my 14 Encore and Carbine barrel.
And don't get me started on my other favorite, the 357 Bain & Davis.

                                                       Steve E......
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