Author Topic: BLR in 308 or 358  (Read 5213 times)

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Offline animal

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BLR in 308 or 358
« on: December 05, 2005, 07:11:14 AM »
My gunsmith can't locate a 308 BLR with pistol grip but can get a 358. I do reload but can't even find brass or factory cartridges for the 358. Do ya think I ought to go ahead and get the 358 and hut down the components for reloading. I can't believehow obsolete the 358 is treated.

Thanks
Animal

Offline victorcharlie

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2005, 07:25:32 AM »
I'd love to have a .358.......if you reload, couldn't you form brass from a 308?
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Savage .250

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2005, 01:34:40 AM »
If it was me, i`d get that .358 and worry about the componets later.
 
  " The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."
" The best part of the hunt is not the harvest but in the experience."

Offline animal

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2005, 03:10:44 AM »
Right, I do have plenty of 308 brass once I get a 358 die.

                                       Thanks guys.
Animal

Offline CJ

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2005, 03:14:16 AM »
Pretty easy, jist run .308 into .358 die trim and load. I think .358 is still in production also. Only problem is its about $30 a box when you find it.
But its worth it.
NRA Lifer

Offline pagris

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Without A Doubt, .358
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2005, 07:16:23 AM »
animal - In my opinion, no real question here - the .358 rules.  If you decide you want to form brass from the .308, Redding sells a case-forming die with a long taper to ease the expanding of the neck:

http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/caseformdies.html

Enjoy that new BLR.
Thanks, Dad, for taking me into the great outdoors.

Offline victorcharlie

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2005, 08:13:50 AM »
Yes, or you could always step the brass up to 338.08 and then to .358 if necessary........
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Harry Snippe

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Re: BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2005, 04:38:20 AM »
Quote from: animal
My gunsmith can't locate a 308 BLR with pistol grip but can get a 358. I do reload but can't even find brass or factory cartridges for the 358. Do ya think I ought to go ahead and get the 358 and hut down the components for reloading. I can't believehow obsolete the 358 is treated.

Thanks

Animal
Winchester sells the 358 Brass as a componet. Here in Canada it is hard to get brass at times but have no problem getting 358W.
I prefer the 358 over the 308 . Then I reload , so Ammo cost are not an issue.Off season plinking with cast bullets is fun  and the 358 does well , since the 35 cal tends to do well with cast . Many reloaders report shooting pistol bullets.
Cost wise the 308 and the 30 calipier bullets make more sense.
If you buy your ammo , then 308 is the way to go since the corner store is not going to carry the 358 w  packaged only by Winchester in a 200 gr. bullet at a cost to us . About $38.00 +.
The 358 W can and will carry heavier bullets , a benifit over the 308 , if your in bear country.


What bore you choose from 22-250 thr. 300WSM , short or long action should beyour choice and preferance .
You just might need to shop around to find the rifle you want .
They are madeThe 308W BLR is offered in a pistol grip . According to whole sale sports here in Canada  MFR# 034009118. ( WWWwholesalesports.com)

The price is about forty dollars more than the straight grip.
Happy

Offline 358Win

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2005, 08:02:19 PM »
Well I've got a 358 Win BLR with the pistol grip and it IS the best thing since sliced bread.  
 
An excellent hunting caliber.  Plus I've made about 400 rounds of brass by firing 308 factory ammo in the 358 Win chamber of my BLR !!  The case dimensions of the 308 and the 358 are the same until well down the shoulder.  The datum line is 0.420 at a length of  of 1.606 inches for both cartridges.  So the headspace is identical.  Only try this with factory ammo or ammo that has been checked for headspace.  Most of what I've done this with is Lake City MATCH.  The accuracy isn't too good but most shots hit a 2 foot diameter rock about 200 yards away.  My Oehler 35P Chronograph clocks the 150 grain 308 bullets at 1,250 fps when fired in the 358W BLR chamber.  The brass fire-forms perfectly.  Even looks a bit better than resized empties.  
 
Once the new 338 Federal ammo hits the street, I'll do the same assuming the diameter and length of the datum line is identical.  Always loved Federal Brass.  I do have 20 Nickel Plated Federals that I fire-formed from 308.  They do required about a 2.0 grain cut in the powder charge over the  Winchester factory 385W cases, but they are very strong and feed just noticeably better than the plain brass.
 
Lee Pacesetter dies will form brass in a single pass from empty 308 cases.  I use Hornady Unique lube, looks a lot like Crisco.  In a safe area well away from any powder or primers I put a little rub around the case body.  Then I warm the neck slightly with a lighter and dip the neck into the lube which coats the neck well inside and out with liquid lube leaving a cookie cutter surface on the lube.  My Lee Cast Iron press handles that with an almost normal sizing stroke.  If you haven't looked at the new Lee Cast Iron Press, check it out, this is a major leap in quality and features.  I was amazed and the price was only $56 brand new.
 
Loads all in Winchester Componets unprimed 358Win Brass, with Winchester Large Rifle Magnum Primers
 
0.357 125 grain copper plated TMJ revolver bullet over 43.0 grains H380.  I have yet to chronograph this load.  But I'd make a rough extrapolation of about 2,900 fps.  Note that is the low endpoint of the estimate, the middle would be 3,000 and the high estimate is 3,100 fps.  This bullet has a BC of 0.122 but it is still awesome for practice, or pest control.  Then muzzle energy at 2,900 fps is 2,343 ft-lbs which is just shy of P.O.Ackley's preferred Energy of 2,500 ft-lbs for Elk and Bear up to 600 pounds; a good bit more than his Adequate Energy of 2,000 ft-lbs  for the same; and over his Minimum Energy of 2,100 ft-lbs for Moose and Large Bear.  Remember that this is our plinking/pest control load.  When zeroed at 150 yards this bullet is 0.6 inches high at 50 yards, 1.2 inches high at 100 yards and 3.8 inches low at 200 yards.  The energies are 1,762 ft-lbs at 50 yards, 1,306 at 100 yards, 957 ft-lbs at 150 yards and 694 ft-lbs at 200 yards.  So our varmint load stays over the 900 ft-lb Minimum Energy for Deer, Antelope, and Mountain Goats out to 150 yards.  While it was pretty much expected that the velocities and especially the energies fall rapidly due to the low Ballistic coefficient.  What was really surprising was the flat trajectory.  Pretty much a flat string out to 175 yards.
 
Was going to give several loads such as 48 gr. AA2520, 250 gr. Nosler Partition with a BC of 0.446 gives a velociity of 2,400 fps. and 43.0 gr AA2520 with a Woodleigh 310 grain and a BC of 0.400 at 2,100 fps.  
 
Enjoy your 358 Win BLR, I know I love mine.

Offline 358Win

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Accuracy
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2005, 08:22:59 PM »
Just re-read my last post.  The big rock at 200 yards is during fire-forming 308s.

With Sierra 225 and Honrady 250 I'm shooting 1 & 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards.  With the 125 grain pistol bullet that opens up to 1 & 3/4 inch groups..  The Williams Fire Sight covers about 1 inch at 100 yards.  I'm sure I could get better groups with a scope.

I set this up with a Williams BAR rear peep and a Fire Sight red fiber optic front when I first got the gun.  Now that I realize that this is a fabulous 250 yard gun, instead of a 150 yard gun like my other lever actions.  I've come to the realization that I need a scope on this gun.

My other lever actions are a Winchester M94 in 44 Magnum with a 16" barrel and a Marlin 45-70 with a 22 inch barrel

Offline WN

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2005, 04:16:39 AM »
I have a straight grip BLR in 358.  I mounted a 1.5x5 Leupold scope on it and it is one of the most accurate guns I own.  I reload with 200gr Hornadys.  The brass is seasonal,  you can get brass but it is not readily available all the time.  When I found it I bought 200 pieces so I now have plenty.  If you reload I feel that you will be very satisfied with the 358.  I searched for years for a Winchester 88 in 358 and never found one in the condition I wanted.  Browing reintroduced the 358 several years ago and I bought one and have not regretted it.

Offline realidahorock

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2006, 08:11:20 PM »
How about just getting a good marlin in 356. Same thing as 358 with a different rim and the bullet seated deeper. Or have a marlin 336 35 Rem convereted to 358 by a bolt face mod. and a little deeper seated bullet. Basically ballistic equivellants and can and will be converted by the best in the business. No pressure issues from the research I have done. will share. realidahorock

Offline mt3030

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2006, 08:33:41 AM »
358Win:

Thank you for sharing all the loading data/tips on the 358. I recently picked up my first 358 (a BLR) and will put your tips to good use.

Lived for two years in Smithfield, 1989-1991. Great country!

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Offline Country Boy

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2006, 05:31:03 AM »
The .358 is no doubt one of the best hunting tools you can get I've had 3 of them but now only use the Browning blr81. I have taken just about everything with mine but mostly bears and boar. I use the .250 grn speer spitzer. I also have a blr.308 and it is great for deer hunting out of tree stands. both are extremely accurate.
   Winchester makes a run of brass now and then. You can use .308 's necked up with no problems. My .358 blrs are the old streight grip steel recievered ones, they are much faster to operate than the new aluminum reciever models.

Offline 358Win

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BLR in 308 or 358
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2006, 09:34:09 PM »
I have one of the newer BLR's in 358 Win.  Which is THE BEST CARTRIDGE on the planet.  But I have noticed that the Aluminum Alloy receiver models require vigorous action to eject spent cases.  The feed stroke takes about 1/2 the effort of the ejection stroke.