Author Topic: odd question from newbie to reloading  (Read 559 times)

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Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« on: February 09, 2006, 09:18:59 AM »
I have a .243 I am loading for. I have just started loading recently. I have Hornady 87 grain soft points I am loading into Hornady brass, CCI primers over a dose of H4350.

I shot today for groups to see what load is best so far.

I got one three-shot group at 100 yards that literally stacks on top of each other. The group is about one and a half to two inches in a vertical line. I cannot, with the naked eye, see any horizontal spread.

This is a great group left to right but what about the vertical? Why is it there and is it a problem? It seems that it would be fine up until the range is enough that the group spreads enough that the bottom shot is way low.

-Matt
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Offline stimpylu32

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2006, 10:19:37 AM »
Matt

Someone posted this awhile back and i saved it because it has alot of good info on this subject , it may help .

http://www.6mmbr.com/verticaltips.html

Stimpy
Deceased June 17, 2015


:D If i can,t stop it with 6 it can,t be stopped

Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2006, 11:28:08 AM »
thanks. i am glad you saved that. it still doesn't answer much for me though...the fixes aren't really valid because i have a rock-solid scope and mounts and rings...a brand-new browning a-bolt with a clean barrel, the wind was so-so, etc.

The only other thing I can figure is that it had to be in my technique at the bench...holding it just barely "off."

I had winchester white box ammo do this too...in my .223, and the next time i shot it, i got a group that would fit under a dime.

Now i wanna get back to the range ASAP to see if it was just me- if i have a one-hole group load!

-Matt
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Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2006, 11:36:48 AM »
or maybe it was too light of a load...the article mentions that too...it was the starting load that did it. It was 39.8 grains of H4350.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline victorcharlie

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2006, 11:44:52 AM »
I haven't tried the 87 grain, but I get almost the same hole with a heavy barrel ruger shooting IMR4831.......and the sierra 85 grain HPBT.......the load I shoot was worked up years ago and is now over the max in current manuals......I've fired this load hundreds or maybe thousands of times......

Crows evaporate with this load, and I've only had 2 deer out of more than 50 that ever took another step......

Did I say that?  We all know that you can't kill deer with a .243 right?

NOT!  

Is this the first powder you've tried?

I sure with they made sampler packs of powder......hard to spend $20 bucks and then let it set on the shelf.....
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 11:47:21 AM »
yeah this was the first powder i tried. they do make samplers, the one i bought was a small can for $5.99, that's why i chose it, to try it and see how it did.

I have a huge bottle of varget that i got to load my .223...maybe i will have to try it instead. I sure liked that group though...even though its an inch and a half vertical or so...horizontal its damn near zero!

-Matt
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Offline Cowpox

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2006, 01:56:59 PM »
mjbgalt, Did you use your powder charges "as thrown" from a measure ? Or, did you weigh them ? It may be that light bullets and light powder charge are causing it, but vertical stringing can indicate charges that vary a bit. Handguns don't seem to mind being charged right from the measure, but for rifles, I set my measure a few 1/10ths light, and trickle up to the exact weight.
I rode with him,---------I got no complaints. ---------Cowpox

Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 02:13:45 PM »
I put the brass right up to my lee powder measure spout and flip the lever and fill it right up.

Is there a better way?

Also, i am getting irritated with the system i use now for finding a weight. I basically play with the measure until it puts out the amount that evens out the scale when the scale is set at a certain desired amount. the measure is in CC's and very hard to read and takes forever this way.

Any better way of doing this? Digital scale?

-Matt
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Offline Slamfire

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2006, 04:13:23 PM »
I once had a Remington 788 that'd throw the third shot high and to the left, I come to the conclusion the bareel had a kink, and was straightened.
The Lee powder measure is difficult to adjust, set it a couple of grains lower than your desired load and trickle in the last 1 or 2 grains. I don't care for the Lee scale at all, there isn't enough magnetic dampening.
Check your action screws, make sure the tension isn't warping the receiver!
I really liked that bullet, but maybe your rifle doesn't.  :wink:
Bold talk from a one eyed fat man.

Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2006, 04:27:24 PM »
I can't figure out how to read it or i would set it right to begin with. tips?

and what kind of scale should i get if the lee one isn't good?

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline thirty06

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2006, 03:54:42 AM »
This to me sounds more like a bedding problem, than a load problem.
Depending on where and how much the stock contacts the barrel can greatly affect accuracy. For a sporter type barrel I've had best luck with free floated barrels. But every rifle is different. You can temp. shim your barrel to see if the stringing goes away. Just loosen your action screws and slide in paper, paste board shims, I use soda cans cut into strips.
Try them in different spots see if it makes a difference.
             Hope this helps

Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 05:49:25 PM »
this is a free-floated barrel and i have checked it...no touching anywhere but the bedding of the action.

-Matt
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Offline Jerry Lester

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 06:48:18 PM »
With the detailed info you've posted here, it leads me to one very possible conclusion.

I'd bet money that you're powder charges are off. A bad batch of powder can also cause it, as well as mixed brass, but generally that type of problem can be traced to two major factors. Either your charges aren't consistant, or a pressure point is getting tighter as the barrel warms up. Since yours is free floated, that'd rule that one out.

I know I'll likely catch some flack here, but the LEE measure is about as bad as they get for accuracy, especially with heavy extruded powders. I'd suggest tossing that measure, and buying at least a good RCBS 505 which under most circumstances will feel like a cadilac compared to the LEE perfect measure.

A few minutes over a chronograph would give you a very good start as to figuring out exactly where the problem is coming  from. Unless there's a problem with your gun, vertical stringing is a direct result of inconsistant velocity, which could be the primers, powder, un-uniform cases or charge weight.

Offline Cowpox

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 07:20:42 PM »
mjbgalt, I first started handloading in the early 70s. I had read in several articles how the RCBS rockchucker was highly respected, and the Lyman 55 powder measure was the most consistant of measures. So, I bought a Rockchucker and a Lyman ammo crafter kit that included a 55 measure, and a 505 balance beam scale. I would weigh charges and adjust the measure, until I got one that was the right weight, then charge a full loading block of brass. Like you, I was getting groups that were quite narrow, but 2-3 inches in height. I asked a local experienced handloader about this, and he told me to buy a trickler,and as slamfire said, set the measure to throw a little light, then trickle the charge up to the exact weight. This cured the verticle stringing, but after a few years, I noticed that once I trickled up to 0, if I bumped the beam on the scale, it would stop showing a little heavy. I figured the jewel or knife edge on the balance had worn, so I bought a new RCBS 1010 balance scale. for a few more years, everything was well, but soon it started doing as the 505 had done, so I bought a RCBS digital. It is now 15 years old, and still doing things right. It is faster at trickling up than the beam scales, because you never have to wait for the beam to quit bouncing to get a reading. By all means, get a digital scale and trickler, and load more consistant loads than you can buy, by trickling up to your powder weight.
I rode with him,---------I got no complaints. ---------Cowpox

Offline mjbgalt

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odd question from newbie to reloading
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2006, 03:43:00 AM »
thanks!

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.