need some input on working up a load

[tstevens41]

I may be a little weird here, but i stop messing with the scope when i can roll a P.Dog off of his hole at over 200 yrds.  I don't care if I hit him on the left side or right side of his heart, or in the belly button, as long as he goes poof.  He is just as dead.  I don't really get that upset if I miss every-once-in-a-while.  There will be other bullets and other dogs.

[Idaho_Hick]

I am probably as new to reloading as you, but I read in one of many manuals a trick that when followed, saves a great deal of frustration.  Make a definete goal before you even start, and stop when you reach it.  I have found that with the infinite number of load combinations out their that making a goal and sticking with it keeps me from going crazy with the "what ifs".

Another thing you might try is adjusting your COAL, really.  People told me that and I remained content to follow the books recommended COAL for quite a while.  Finally, at my last range session in fact, I tried it in a rifle that is giving me fits.  It is a .308 and I have tried many powders with quality 165 grain bullets and almost all my groups are between 2 and 3 inches (five shots, you can get lucky with 3 often, less often with 5).
Anyway, here are the results for two five shot group averages, with everything the same but for the COAL.

COAL        Group
2.81          2.61
2.76          2.16
2.74          1.57
2.72          2.4

So, needless to say, I am now going to try a few other loads that showed promise at an overall length of 2.74".

And as regards your initial question, I find that for me groups often shrink best when you tinker with the group that is evenly spaced, rather than double grouped, assuming they are of the same size.

[Idaho_Hick]

I am probably as new to reloading as you, but I read in one of many manuals a trick that when followed, saves a great deal of frustration.  Make a definete goal before you even start, and stop when you reach it.  I have found that with the infinite number of load combinations out their that making a goal and sticking with it keeps me from going crazy with the "what ifs".

Another thing you might try is adjusting your COAL, really.  People told me that and I remained content to follow the books recommended COAL for quite a while.  Finally, at my last range session in fact, I tried it in a rifle that is giving me fits.  It is a .308 and I have tried many powders with quality 165 grain bullets and almost all my groups are between 2 and 3 inches (five shots, you can get lucky with 3 often, less often with 5).
Anyway, here are the results for two five shot group averages, with everything the same but for the COAL.

COAL        Group
2.81          2.61
2.76          2.16
2.74          1.57
2.72          2.4

So, needless to say, I am now going to try a few other loads that showed promise at an overall length of 2.74".

And as regards your initial question, I find that for me groups often shrink best when you tinker with the group that is evenly spaced, rather than double grouped, assuming they are of the same size.

[Graybeard]

Is this the one you PM'ed me about Matt?

[Robert357]

I stop when it puts 5 shots in less than 1" at 200 yards...at a velocity that is sufficient to do the job for that caliber and game.  (Generally less than max.)

I was working-up a .22-250 load using the Sierra 52 HPBT and Varget awhile back.  It was grouping 0.685" for 5 at 200, but it was only doing 2957 FPS at 15' from the muzzle.  Not what I would consider right for the caliber...

Steve.....I am impressed.  1/2 MOA (1 inch at 200 yards) is impressive,  1/3 MOA at 200 yards is beyond what I would ever dream of achieving.  Your website and your quest for handloading extremes in accuracy and power are amazing.  On a bell shaped curve, you are out there several standard devitations beyond the rest of us.

Thank you for your contributions.

[mjbgalt]

yes GB this is it, thanks  :grin:

-Matt

[victorcharlie]

"I worked on a heavy barrel ruger .243 for over 2 years"

I spent 6 years finding a good load for a .25-06.  I learned a lot of new words in those 6 years, but I have a .25-06 that will do 5 at 200 in 0.489".

There is a high degree of satisfaction when it all comes together...........that's for sure...........When it all comes together is anybody's guess........

[papajohn428]

I'll certainly agree with that last....sometimes you're ready to give up, then try a couple more loads, and VOILA!  There it is!  My Rem. 788 in 22-250 shot into about an inch and a half with factory loads, half that with my best loads.  I toyed with powders and primers and bullets and seating depths and everything you can think of for a year, trying to find something better.  On a desperate whim, I bought a can of IMR-4064, and the next session I about fell off my seat.  Most groups hovered around the half-inch mark, a few around .400" at 100 yards.  (That was the longest range we could shoot at.) I tried a Sierra 52 Gr. HP the next time out and shot five straight groups under a quarter-inch, the last coming in at .130 for five shots.  I kept testing the load over the summer, and it rarely went over .220", unless the wind was blowing pretty hard.  Even then, the groups were great, but a tad off to one side.  

The next spring, right at the end of crow season, I blew one out of the top of a tall tree at somewhere between 400 and 450 yards, on the second shot, with three witnesses.  My chest hurt for two days after, from sticking it out so far!  

And then sometimes you just fall into a combination the gun likes with almost NO work.  I decided to load some blasting ammo for my 30-30 last week, using scooped charges and an unproven bullet.  When I shot them on paper this past Wednesday, I got four straight groups that were all nearly one-holers.  Needless to say, I loaded up another 50 rounds right quick, the same way!  

Sometimes you're the Louisville slugger, sometimes you're the ball!

Papajohn