Author Topic: Reloading for 15" barrels (Read 503 times)

Jim D · « **on:** February 11, 2006, 01:44:41 PM »

My question is due to the fact that most data is based on 24"or22" barrels where should I go for good information on handloading for my Encore barrels? I am new to the game of reloading and want to do all the investigation that I can before I really get started,am already reading books on modern reloading but have not really found good info on short barrels--------Thanks in advance---Jim.

PaulS · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2006, 07:08:40 PM »

Jim D,

your powder selection is independent of barrel length. The powder that gives the highest velocity in a 24 inch barrel will give the highest velocity in a 12 inch barrel too. The kind of powder that works the best is determined by the bullet weight and diameter and the amount of powder space available inthe cartridge. Just use the same load data for the longer barrels and chrono it if it is important to know the velocity.

Brithunter · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2006, 12:49:17 AM »

Hmm well in a .270 chambered rifle I have which has a 20" barrel I have found that by using medium burning rate powders rather than the slow one usually associated with the .270 I actually get better performance and reduce or nearly eliminate te fireball from the muzzle caused by the slow powders burning out of the muzzle.

I have always wondered why they chambered the .270 in such a short barrel although it does suit the style that being a Stutzen full stock.

Quote

The powder that gives the highest velocity in a 24 inch barrel will give the highest velocity in a 12 inch barrel too.

I wonder how this works when fast burning powders of course burn in the case and the first few inches of the barrel, slower powders of course taking longer to burn so a slow poder in a short barrel will not burn completly in a lot of cases surely.

Brithunter · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2006, 12:52:37 AM »

Whoops sorry double post :oops:

ricciardelli · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2006, 01:42:12 AM »

Well, every reloading manual I have divides cartridges into rifle and handgun sections. Some even have special sections for the Encore and Encore-type handguns.

If all that fails, http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm has a handgun section.

And, it really doesn't make that much difference. When is the last time you walked into a sporting goods store and saw factory ammunition labled "FOR HANDGUNS ONLY" or " FOR LONGARMS ONLY"?

You start at the lower end, like you do for any reloading work-up, and gradually work-up...how ironic...

giturgun · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2006, 04:56:40 AM »

You may want to check out specialty pistols Great site for the break opens rotary bolt and other odd balls. I have learned a few things there on my T C contender

cherokee · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:28:24 PM »

Quote from: PaulS

Jim D,

your powder selection is independent of barrel length. The powder that gives the highest velocity in a 24 inch barrel will give the highest velocity in a 12 inch barrel too. The kind of powder that works the best is determined by the bullet weight and diameter and the amount of powder space available inthe cartridge. Just use the same load data for the longer barrels and chrono it if it is important to know the velocity.

That is not true. In my 24" .308 with 168gn bullets and 44gn of RL15 I got 2650fps. After cutting the barrel to 18.5" I was getting 2450fps. Switching to a faster powder (43gn IMR3031) I was able to get the velocity back to 2650fps. Faster powders will give higher velocities in shorter barrels.

PaulS · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2006, 07:42:20 PM »

The test results that I have read and the test printouts that I have seen show that the highest pressure occurs in the first couple of inches of the barrel even with the slowest burning powders. Even with the slowest burning powders it is all burned within a few inches of the chamber. If you have a barrel that is longer than 3 or four inches your 270 is burning all the powder in the case. That muzzle flash is because of the super heated gasses that are escaping before they have time to cool. Do you lose velocity with a shorter barrel? YES! the hot gasses continue to push against that bullet as long as the pressure generated is higher than the drag on the bullet in the barrel. Can you get some velocity back by using faster burning powders? NOT according to the studies that the NRA, Hodgdon powder company and a few others have published throughoout the years. If you could then they would be listed as such in the manuals. Do you lose muzzle flash with faster powders? YES! the pressure drops off faster and with that pressure the temperature drops too! That pressure drop is also what keeps you from getting more velocity with the fast powder than you get with the sloiwer burning powders. The best powder for any load depends completely on the weight of the bullet and the available space for powder. You can only use so much powder until peak pressure goes over what is safe so you can't put 40 grains of Bullseye in a 270 with a 4 inch barrel and get good velocity before it turns into a hand grenade. By the same token you can't get enough of H450 into a 38 special case to get the pressure high enough to push a bullet fast enough to make it worth doing.

Castaway · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2006, 12:27:32 AM »

Paul, thanks for seeing this first and answering it. This seems to be a recurring topic with a cult following like Big Foot; i.e., shorter barrels need faster powders and muzzle flash indicates unburned powder. If you don't mind, I'm going to cut, paste and copy your post so I don't have to type my own version next time it pops up.

PaulS · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2006, 04:13:13 PM »

be my guest - I think I have typed it far too many times and I ought to do the same (copy it and save it for next time)

RugerNo3 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2006, 01:59:40 PM »

Quote from: cherokee

Quote from: PaulS
Jim D,

your powder selection is independent of barrel length. The powder that gives the highest velocity in a 24 inch barrel will give the highest velocity in a 12 inch barrel too. The kind of powder that works the best is determined by the bullet weight and diameter and the amount of powder space available inthe cartridge. Just use the same load data for the longer barrels and chrono it if it is important to know the velocity.

That is not true. In my 24" .308 with 168gn bullets and 44gn of RL15 I got 2650fps. After cutting the barrel to 18.5" I was getting 2450fps. Switching to a faster powder (43gn IMR3031) I was able to get the velocity back to 2650fps. Faster powders will give higher velocities in shorter barrels.

That 44gr RL15 load is in the middle of suggested load data and the 43 gr load of IMR3031 is the max load for the bullet weight and certainly more pressure. The shorter barrel is stiffer and gives better accuracy hence the hotter load is practical considering accuracy. The max of 47 gr of RL15 may have done the same thing.

PaulS · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2006, 07:07:52 PM »

Cherokee,

I don't understand why you don't use the standard 748 or IMR4064 powders that give good results and the highest velocity in most 308 rifles. IMR3031 is only slightly faster than the two above but you could get an extra 25 fps or so with the slower powder at slightly lower pressures.
Not to say that 3031 isn't a good powder for the 308 it is. It is also a lot slower than Re 12 which is listed as a higher velocity loading than Re15 with the 110 grain bullets. With any bullets heavier than 110 Re15 is a better choice than Re12 but there are better powders for them than the Re15. It all depends on the bullet weight and the space (room) left in the case for powder. You will never get 2500 FPS from a 308 165 grain bullet using 231 or bullseye. The powder produces too much pressure too quickly to get the bullet moving - likewise you will never get enough H1000 in a 38 spl case to get a 200 grain LRN bullet up to 1200 FPS. You can't get enough powder in the case to raise pressures to the point where the bullet will accelerate. Too very extreme examples but the same rules apply to powders closer together in burn rate too.