Author Topic: Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?  (Read 6716 times)

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Offline catblaster.375

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« on: September 06, 2005, 04:07:06 PM »
South African?, XM80?, Argentine?, ect.?
Looking for cheap but accurate ammo to practice with in my sniper. I shoot out to 600yrds and beyond. I am looking to buy 1000rnds.
Thanks and God Bless

Offline Stan in SC

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Accurate 7.62X51 ammunition?
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2005, 01:12:38 AM »
I have found the Portuguese to be the best ammunition as far as accuracy.A lot of people will say that the US made Lake City arsenal match is the best for long range shooting.Most of it is dependent on what the rifle functions well with.
The more I listen,the more I hear....and vice versa.

45/70..it's almost a religion.

Offline 1911crazy

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2005, 01:38:10 AM »
I have stuck with the South African 308 ball ammo and it seems to be very accurate at 100yds. in most of my 308 rifles. I got it from AIM Surplus.

Don't buy the indian 308 ammo its junk, garbage, not good, kaput!!!!!

Offline jh45gun

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2005, 01:07:19 AM »
Get the British made stuff, it is excellent and match grade ammo!
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Mikey

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2005, 03:35:41 AM »
catblaster.375 - you didn't say what make your sniper rifle is.  If it is a mil-spec US made sniper then you will probably have more success, and enjoyable fulfillment, with US made Lake City ammo.  As I recall, LC match ammo used a 177 gn bullet at 2550'/sec.  The British made sniper ammo should be to the same specs, but you may not be quite so happy with plain jane foreign made mil-surp.  It is probably not to the same specs or quality as the US/British made stuff.  JMHO.  Mikey.

Offline catblaster.375

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2005, 04:03:41 PM »
Thank you for your replies

My rifle is custom from the ground up: M70 action, HS aluminum bedded stock, 26" HEAVY stainless bull barrel, custom muzzle brake, Teflon finish, trigger job(3lbs NO CREEP). I wish I new the twist rate. I have a Mueller 3-10x44(in my opinion the perfect sniper scope) on it right now. Shoots a 1" group at 300yrds with good ammo. I am not the original owner. The original owner had $1300 into it. All the work was done by a perfesional. He shot it 15 times and it sat in his gun safe for a few years. He needed money an sold it to me for $650 with leopold quick detach mounts. Not a scratch on it. I have had it for a few months and already shot a cow elk with it the other day. I just want some cheap ammo that I can burn up from ranges 100 yards to as far as I can see. I dont need it to shoot into one hole at 300 yards just the best that surplus can do. It also needs to be able to shoot minute of coyote. Right now it looks like some south afrikan since I can't find any portugese. I am also gonna pick up some talon tracers for fun. anyone had expirience with tracers?

Offline catblaster.375

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2005, 04:32:58 PM »
Thank you for your replies

My rifle is custom from the ground up: M70 action, HS aluminum bedded stock, 26" HEAVY stainless bull barrel, custom muzzle brake, Teflon finish, trigger job(3lbs NO CREEP). I wish I new the twist rate. I have a Mueller 3-10x44(in my opinion the perfect sniper scope) on it right now. Shoots a 1" group at 300yrds with good ammo. I am not the original owner. The original owner had $1300 into it. All the work was done by a perfesional. He shot it 15 times and it sat in his gun safe for a few years. He needed money an sold it to me for $650 with leopold quick detach mounts. Not a scratch on it. I have had it for a few months and already shot a cow elk with it the other day. I just want some cheap ammo that I can burn up from ranges 100 yards to as far as I can see. I dont need it to shoot into one hole at 300 yards just the best that surplus can do. It also needs to be able to shoot minute of coyote. Right now it looks like some south afrikan since I can't find any portugese. I am also gonna pick up some talon tracers for fun. anyone had expirience with tracers?

Offline Andrew Quigley

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2005, 04:35:40 PM »
I shoot a Enfield Isophore in .308 and it loves the Israel made .308's. Bought 500rds of the Portuages and was glad when it was gone. For my gun it shot four to six inch groups at a 100yrds. Switched to the Israel made stuff it dropped to 1 1/2 to 2" with open sights.
 Need to find some more of the Israel as I'm nearly out!!
Andrew

"Lost!!  Ain't never been lost. Fearsum confused for 2 or 3 months but never lost!!"

Offline jh45gun

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2005, 06:26:59 PM »
I had a ishy and it shot terrible I dumped it. It shot 4 inches at 50 yards scoped or not scoped and it did not matter if I used factory or milsurp 308 it shot it all crappy which surprised me as the bore looked great.
Said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it.

Offline Bigdog57

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2005, 06:09:54 AM »
The best 7.62 surplus I have used is the Hirtenberger-made stuff repackaged in El Salvador.  It is mixed year headstamps, and is put into 100 round bulk boxes.  Some is very grungy, even rusty-looking, others are bright and shiny, most somewhere between.  All has shot very well in my CETME and FR8 rifles.  I separate them into their headstamp groups for best accuracy.  I have shot several 1.5" groups at 100 yards, using my CETME with a fixed 6X42 scope.
I paid $15/100 rounds at our local gunshow for it.  I'm well pleased!
The CAVIM from Venezuela is nearly as good too.  Excellent performance.  I don't see it available lately though.

Offline John Traveler1

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tracers
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2005, 05:06:12 PM »
It's generally a very BAD idea to fire tracer ammunition in any precision made barrel.

Military tracer ammunition leaves hygroscopic and VERY abrasive residues in the bore, and only a few shots is enough to ruin a match-quality barrel.  How does the military get away with it?  Well, they generally use chromium plated bores, and if accuracy falls off on an issued rifle, they change out the barrels.

HTH
John

Offline scout34

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 08:36:17 AM »
If you're looking for precision you'll generally be dissappointed with any surplus ammo.  If it shoots 1.5 MOA it's golden, buy 5000 rds.  Whatever it is it won't shoot well past 500 yds, and 147gr FMJ will get pushed around by the wind pretty bad.  US Army Mil Spec calls for 4 MOA at that distance, or a 20" circle.

If you want better long range ammo there is some surplus 168gr available.  I remember seeing some that had been made up for the RCMP by Federal.  Also check out Black Hills remanufactured.

As an experiment I tried out some of that Indian surplus that everyone disses and you know what?  It's as bad as they say!  But I did dissasemble 100 rounds, dump the powder, resize and trim, recharge with surplus pulldown IMR4895 and reseat original bullets.  Stuff works great!  If you have more time than money it's a great way to save some cash on serious bulk ammo.  I go in with a buddy and order it for under $90 a thousand at 5000 rds a pop.  32lbs of powder takes care of most of it and with a Dillon press (This is the key to avoiding insanity here) knock it out in a weekend.  Pick up the brass and sell as once fired or load again (curse you, military crimp!).  Works like a treat and cleans up pretty good.

Offline Larry Gibson

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 12:42:33 PM »
catblaster.375

"My rifle is custom from the ground up: M70 action, HS aluminum bedded stock, 26" HEAVY stainless bull barrel, custom muzzle brake, Teflon finish, trigger job(3lbs NO CREEP). I wish I new the twist rate. I have a Mueller 3-10x44(in my opinion the perfect sniper scope) on it right now. Shoots a 1" group at 300yrds with good ammo."

Excuse me but you have a Corvette and you're asking what retreads will give the best road racing performance?  Unless you can find some M118 or Special Ball at a gunshow (It will not be "cheap" BTW) I would recommend you do not consider surplus 7.62 ammo in your rifle. The odds of you finding any that will be "cheap but accurate" are slim to none with "slim" being gone. You will be very frustrated at 600+ yards with surplus ammo, more than likely dissappointed at any range. Also these types of rifles have a 5,000 round or so life of really sniper quality accuracy. To shoot up 20% of it with surplus ammo is a waste. Assuming you don't currently reload? I suggest you start.

Take the money you would spend on the surplus ammo and get the following from Midway;

Lee classic Loader in .308
Lee priming tool set up for .308
Neck chamfering tool
Loading block
Powder funnel
200 R-P .308 brass
4 MTM 50 round cartridge boxes
500 Sierra 175 gr Match King Bullets
MTM Sportmans Dry Box

From the local gunshop get;
2 lbs of H4895
500 WLR Primers

From a local harware store get;
medium size plastic headed mallet
#0000 steel wool (used to clean the outside of the case necks after they have been fired and before sizing. Used to lightly clean any other grit off the cases. Wipe the cases off with a clean paper towel after using the steel wool)

If the Lee loader doesn't come with a 2.8 CC powder scoop get one from Lee.

All the above will fit in the MTM Sportmans Dry Box (a little larger than a large ammo can) and can easily be stored in a closet or cabinet.

Read the instructions that come with the Lee loader. Follow the instructions with the exception of priming; use the hand priming tool for that. Chamfer the case mouths after sizing, it only has to be done once. Use a large mouth clean coffee cup to put the H4895 powder in. Run the scoop through it as the directions say. Remember, consistancy counts. The 2.8 CC scoop will throw right at 40 gr of the H4985. In the R-P cases (equivelent in volume to M118 cases) that 40 gr of H4895 under the 175 gr MK (seated to 2.82" over all lenght) will run right at 2550 fps or so out of your rifle. Accuracy will be excellent out to 1,000 yards.  

I doubt the above equipment, minus componants, will cost much more than the 1,000 rounds of surplus ammo. With the primers, powder, cases and MK bullets you will have 500 rounds of very good shooting. fter you shoot that up you you will then have the equipment and fire formed brass to continue to load excellent quality ammo for that fine rifle.

"I dont need it to shoot into one hole at 300 yards just the best that surplus can do. It also needs to be able to shoot minute of coyote."

Surplus will not do that and it will most often not put a coyote down. It will kill them but they will go a long way before they die. The data card with the Lee loader will give varmint load combinations. I suggest the Nosler 125 BT, the Sierra 125 SP or the Speer 130 HP for coyote in the .308.

"I am also gonna pick up some talon tracers for fun. anyone had expirience with tracers?"

Yes I have, use them for marking targets for MGs or bigger guns in a militsry context. They usually have a zero all their own and are not accurate.  For sniper use they work better in theory and fiction than in practice. They can be "fun" in certain guns but in a high quality barrel like yours I wouldn't consider them fun, just a waste.

The above comments are made to assist you to get the best out of what appears to be a very fine rifle. The rifle is yours however, to do with as you please. I think you will enjoy it more with quality ammunition (you'll have more "fun" with one hit at 600 yards with your quality reloads vs five misses with cheap surplus) and may even get into reloading to better enjoy the sport of shooting.

Larry Gibson

Offline bluebayou

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 01:15:17 PM »
I have used the ADI ammo.  I dig it.  Very good accuracy from a Rem 700 ADL, 1.5" if I remember right.  I would second the motion for catblaster to reload.

But, if anyone hasn't seen this link then check it out:
http://rifle-company.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=431

Offline Stan in SC

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Milsurp ammunition in a custom rifle????
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 02:35:36 PM »
What Larry Gibson said expresses very well the question in my mind.
I like the part about retreads on a Corvette.
If you shoot 600 yards then you need to reload just like military snipers do.Why would you even consider milsurp ammunition at that range in that rifle?
The more I listen,the more I hear....and vice versa.

45/70..it's almost a religion.

Offline 1911crazy

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2006, 01:12:05 AM »
Quote from: Bigdog57
The best 7.62 surplus I have used is the Hirtenberger-made stuff repackaged in El Salvador.  It is mixed year headstamps, and is put into 100 round bulk boxes.  Some is very grungy, even rusty-looking, others are bright and shiny, most somewhere between.  All has shot very well in my CETME and FR8 rifles.  I separate them into their headstamp groups for best accuracy.  I have shot several 1.5" groups at 100 yards, using my CETME with a fixed 6X42 scope.
I paid $15/100 rounds at our local gunshow for it.  I'm well pleased!
The CAVIM from Venezuela is nearly as good too.  Excellent performance.  I don't see it available lately though.


Hirterberger is good ammo it was accurate in the swede rifles too.


Caution for the ones who don't know or never thought about it, wether you have a Cetme already or you plan on getting a Cetme. We have to be really careful on what ammo we shoot out of our Cetme's too because of the fluted chambers.  It needs to be good quality cases so no splits when chambered a fired will occur. While most good quality 308 nato should be safe i would never shoot indian ammo in my cetme because its prone to split cases.  There have been pics of cetme's blown apart because of bad cases.

Offline scout34

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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2006, 02:05:24 AM »
In that Indian surplus, when I pulled it apart I would find powder all clumped together and sometimes I would find empty bullet jackets seated in the cases.  The case necks were always terrible, almost never square, and some were crumpled from where the bullet never entered the case before it was seated.  Once I culled out the bad ones, resized and trimmed they looked okay.

Offline S.S.

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Most Accurate .308 Surplus Ammo?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 07:54:22 AM »
Roll your own for it.
168 gr sierra match kings (if you can still find them)
are about as accurate a projectile as modern man can create.
They will come apart in heavy game,(Elk, Moose etc.)but I somehow
do not think that is what you created your rifle for anyway.
AS far as surplus, The FNM stuff made in Portugal it the top of the pile.
This may sound bad, but I am not fond of U.S. surplus ammo..it always seems to be in worse condition than from other countries. Bad storage conditions or something. And so far, the only case head separrations
I have ever had was with U.S. stuff.
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
"A wise man does not pee against the wind".