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Offline onecoyote

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Where did it all began?
« on: February 21, 2006, 01:33:30 PM »
When and where did modern day predator calling began?
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Offline Glanceblamm

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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2006, 02:26:41 PM »
I did hear tale of those Indians folding a leaf to make a squeaker. Fur would have been a very valuble commodity in those times.

What I dont know is who invented the howler call. One of the first that I heard of was Bill Austin in 1987. I still use his calls today.
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2006, 06:33:26 PM »
Nice try, but Bill Austin was not in the ball game at the time.  We are talking modern day predator calling.
The American Indians, " basically from Mongolian heritage" were from another time and they usually didn't blow on the grass, they smoked it.  :wink:
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Offline oso45-70

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Re: Where did it all began?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2006, 09:29:48 AM »
Quote from: onecoyote
When and where did modern day predator calling began?


Hello onecoyote,

I don't know when it first started for anyone else but for me it started in 1948, I learned that i could pucker my lips and call Bob Cats so i kept trying to call a coyote and finally got it right. It seems to me that the first i heard about calling in one of the hunting rags was about the sixtys some time. Good Question I would like to hear from some of the other guys on this one, I know i called many a Coyote when we were still on the ranch  :D  Good Luck.............Joe................
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2006, 11:56:57 AM »
oso45-70,  I have a predator hunting museum here in NM.  The oldest hand call I have was made in 1949.

It was called a Pied Piper and was made from a cow horn by A. L. Lindsey of Brownwood Texas.

You're what they call an oldtimer in the sport nowadays. In 1958 many of the callers that are looking at this were not even born at the time lol. That does not include me though. :cry:

I would like to see what people really think about this subject, thanks for your answer. :D
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Offline kyote

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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2006, 08:22:28 AM »
I reckon when John,Doc and a couple others got in there dune buggy and went to the desert with a long fish landing net and snaged a bunch of jacks.took em to the university sound room and used cattle prods on em with some other things that made em scream and recorded the sounds and took the sounds to the field with a 40 pound back pack and started calling the coyotes in.are when Doc trained Sceery and lohman..
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2006, 11:54:11 AM »
Kyote, who's doc? You're talking electronic calling, the guy that started that was Johnny Stewart in 1960.

I'm talking hand calls. E.J. Sceery first produced predator calls in 1980, On the other hand Irving Loman started producing predator Calls in 1954.

One of the very first guys to us a hand call that was documented was from Bishop California.
He was a government hunter working up in Orovada Nevada and called in coyotes using a hand call back in 1944 and his name was?

I was 1 at the time so I don't remember lol :wink:
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2006, 11:57:09 AM »
Onecoyote

In looking over my earlier post that said  1958 was supposed to be 1948 sorry about that i was not still on the ranch in 1958. All i can say is my finger must be blind.  :toast: .............Joe..........
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Offline kyote

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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2006, 03:42:19 PM »
Doc Howard..I am sure you know him.he is supposed to be the authority on coyotes.he just never made movies,are patend his call's.Dusty has Hunted with him.you may have also.I love going with him..he is a wealth of information.every time I have gone with him I have had a blast.
His Buddy and mine, John.has been at it for over 50 years.he does not do contest.just goes out every day in the winter months and hunts them.92 he paid cash for a new ford 4x4 with the sale of his fur for that season.He is the one that showed me how to call.I believe John may have had the 1st caller that broadcasted a hurt critter sound from an electronic source.he just used it for his prupose..
My son and I plan on callin our way up to carrizo this sunday.we might come through the range are around the boundery of it.any who, hope we can meet.
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Offline Glanceblamm

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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2006, 04:50:43 PM »
Quote
One of the very first guys to us a hand call that was documented was from Bishop California.
He was a government hunter working up in Orovada Nevada and called in coyotes using a hand call back in 1944 and his name was?

Great Reading Guys.
I am grabbing at straws but the answer to the above wouldnt be
Burnham
Olt
or Faulk would it? :D
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2006, 05:12:43 PM »
Oh, that Doc I know him well. he's a great guy, but he is not the guy or one of the guys that got it all started.....Hell, he's only a couple years older then me lol....Now I'm getting scared............ Everybody has heard of Murry Burnham, some have heard of Winston Burnham, but who has heard of Morton Burnham? Morton Burnham called in 3 wolves in 1903, but was he the first guy to call coyotes with a mouth call?
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2006, 05:22:04 PM »
Quote from: onecoyote
Oh, that Doc. I know him well, he's a great guy, but he is not the guy or one of the guys that got it all started.....Hell, he's only a couple years older then me lol....Now I'm getting scared.



They say the mind is the first thing to go and i can attest to it I don't think any one is older than me Older than dirt

Onecoyote you should have a PM from me :D  ..........Joe...........
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2006, 05:29:03 PM »
Joe, my puter took a dump a week ago. We are living for  tomorrow or monday when we get a new program. My e-mail don't work at this time...Give me a few days ok.
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2006, 06:47:02 AM »
It's been long enough. The answer to the question, when and where did modern day calling start? It has to be 1903 and Morton Burnham.

As far as the first hand call being used, that has to be in 1944 when government hunter Ray Alcorn used a hand call to kill coyotes in Orovada Nevada.

oso45-70, I'm only 63. I'm sure you're older then me, I seen your age somewhere? I just forgot lol.
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2006, 08:44:07 AM »
Onecoyote.

Yep, I am 72 going on 100 or so it seems. When i wake up in the mornings i run a check on all my aching joints to see if they all are in working order, I don't know some of the people you have mentioned but do recognise a few of the names. The one person i do remember is Mickey Millagan who was trapping the northern part of New Mexico for the government in the early 50s. He used to come stay with us while he worked his line and we would go out calling at night. Had some great times with him. Also got to spend some time with Walter Rogers who worked for the NM-Game and fish as a trapper, I also have the book he wrote.........Have stopped hunting for the season to let the mommas turn out some more little yotes.        .........Joe.........
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Offline Sourdough

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« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2006, 09:43:22 AM »
All I can say is that I was reading about it in the late 50s in a hunting magazine.  The person was calling cayotes in Northern Arizonia, or New Mexico.  He called in a Black Bear and it almost got him.  He was talking about how dangerous calling was, and how you never knew what would answer the call.  I will never forget the artest drawing that accompanied the article.  It was of the caller, who was in the process of getting up.  The caller had looked around and there stood a brown Black Bear.  The emotion showing in the callers face was part fear, part excitement.  The reader was left with the impression of how dangerous the situation was, and how it could be hazardous, but rewarding at the same time.  I think that picture of that caller got me started hunting more than anything else.
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2006, 09:53:41 AM »
Quote from: Sourdough
All I can say is that I was reading about it in the late 50s in a hunting magazine.  The person was calling cayotes in Northern Arizonia, or New Mexico.  He called in a Black Bear and it almost got him.  He was talking about how dangerous calling was, and how you never knew what would answer the call.  I will never forget the artest drawing that accompanied the article.  It was of the caller, who was in the process of getting up.  The caller had looked around and there stood a brown Black Bear.  The emotion showing in the callers face was part fear, part excitement.  The reader was left with the impression of how dangerous the situation was, and how it could be hazardous, but rewarding at the same time.  I think that picture of that caller got me started hunting more than anything else.


Sourdough Been there done that with both Bear and mt.lion, To turn around and see either one is an experence you won't soon forget. :lol: ...........Joe.........
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2006, 01:39:56 PM »
Sourdough, you're right. Arizona had some down right famous predator callers as did California and Texas in the late 50s.
I also read some stories whay back when about the Burnham Brothers, Murry and Winston.
oso45-70 is sure right about calling a bear or lion, but it can't be as bad as calling in a grizzly, you done that one yet Sourdough? Probably not, you can still type lol.
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Offline Glanceblamm

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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2006, 05:07:38 PM »
oso45-70
Sourdough
Coyoteone

It is great to hear from some true professionals. I would be the novice in the bunch only being 49 years old and a predator hunting for 35yrs.
I have only been coyote hunting for around 25yr as it took them a while to show up here.
You guys have done great but maybe should have hunted a little harder cause you let those yotes on my side of the Mississippi :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :-D  :D
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Offline Sourdough

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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2006, 08:28:43 PM »
oso45-70:  My wife is from Alamogordo, we lived there in the early 80s.  Had a good friend from Tucomcari.  I was calling turkey one morning in the spring.  I was in the Sacramento mountains, south of Cloudcroft, near Sunspot.  I had been calling for about 20 minutes when I got this wierd feeling like I was being watched.  I kept looking around, but saw nothing.  Suddenly the most blood curddling scream came from right behind me.  I came up off the ground, spinning around, looking for the source of the scream.  It sounded like a woman.  The 12ga I had in my hands seemed very insignificate.  I never saw the animal, but at the time I did not want to anyway.  The old ranchers that I knew from the area all said I had called in a Mt. Lion.  It was a long time before I could go Turkey hunting again after that.  I have called in Cayotes, foxes, wolves, and Black Bears, no Grizzlies yet.
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2006, 07:29:22 PM »
Gentlemen.

While trapping in the Burro Mts Between Silver City and Lordsburg NM i had quite a few neat things happen to me, Like calling up a herd of Javalenas, Mexican Eagles, Badgers, Wild dogs, Wild house cats and you name it. Them Little Javalena would throw every trap they could find, Their little feet will not hold in a steel trap ( long Spring type ) they just kick it off and go on about their business, Had deer get into traps but they kick the trap off just like the Javalena do. But I wouldent trade the experience of if for any thing in the world, Probably the best thing that could happen to a feller. In 74 & 75 when the price of fur was so good I made more money than i had ever made, Shipped hides to Mass and Stephens fur co. in Spring Feild Mo. and the Bob cats went to Garcia and son in Kalifornia. Did Not mean to hog the thread :D .........Joe........
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2006, 10:25:31 AM »
oso45-70, you ever hunt south of Animas?
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2006, 05:17:19 PM »
Quote from: onecoyote
oso45-70, you ever hunt south of Animas?


onecoyote, Yep spent many a day in that area all the way down to antalope wells and on west through the Coronado national Forrest.
Thats where we used to go to kill our pigs in the fall and do some white tail hunting, I have done quite a bit of calling in that country, Since the Drug business is hot and heavy its not a good place to mess around any more. Used to call coyotes all the way from the western part of south NM to Columbus and on up to Deming Calling all the way. Don't know if you know where the train tracks are from Deming to the Tyrone mine? but let me tell you there is some of the best calling there that i have ever found.
Not bad Quail hunting also. Some times i would be gone for a week or more and the back of my little Pick up would  be full to over flowing with hides to skin. So i guess you could say i have hunted south of Animas. Me and my little Chevy pulling a small trailer for sleeping and cooking. Boy did i ever get wound up, the Computer is smoking like crazy. So long fellers, see ya in the funnies. :D .........Joe.........
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Offline onecoyote

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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2006, 12:43:35 PM »
oso45-70, the reason I asked is I have people south of Animas that own a cattle ranch ( no, not the Gray ranch lol ).
They have the oldest ranch in the valley, I think it's 104 this year. I took a very nice desert mule deer off the ranch in 91, they have everything down there a guy would want to hunt.
I've been through most of that country myself, from Cloverdale to Antelope wells. I'm sure you know lobos have been crossing that border forever, along with an occasional Jaguar, Ocelot and who knows what else. To this day it's some pretty wild country. :D
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Offline oso45-70

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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2006, 02:21:23 PM »
Onecoyote

You forgot the elusive Coati Munde who lives in the south west, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. I did get to see a wolf but could'nt get the pick up stopped in time to take his picture Ha Ha. You are right about being some wild country ( bad place to have a break down ) Because it a long ways to any where. Travel there is measured in day light hours. But to me its beautiful country. I am gone :bye: .............Joe..........
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