Author Topic: Any bets on the outcome of the Saddham trial?  (Read 1336 times)

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Offline Questor

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Any bets on the outcome of the Saddham trial?
« on: March 15, 2006, 03:29:11 AM »
Categories are:

1) Year the trial will end.

2) Guilty or innocent.

3) Death penalty, life in prison, or exile.

4) Whether the "international community" will see the trial as having been fair.


I wager one cup of coffee on 2007, three oreos on guilty, and a diet coke on life in prison. For number 4, I wager ten bazillion gigabucks on no.
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Offline heartman

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Now THIS is good stuff...
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2006, 03:46:04 AM »
After reading this morning's paper, I'd add a fifth choice:

5.  The judge finnaly gives up and just shoots him in self-defense!

Offline Questor

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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2006, 03:51:39 AM »
Dang! I forgot that one. I'll wager five vanilla wafers that the severity of the tongue lashings increase, but that the judge does't actually kill him.

By the way, have you noticed that the reportage of the trial covers Hussein's histrionics while not covering the substance of the trial?
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Offline FWiedner

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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2006, 05:59:43 AM »
I don't believe that Saddam Hussein can or will get a fair trial.

Western law is too contrived and hypocritical to judge him, and he is being judged by his political rivals and enemies.

I believe the trial is for show, the judging has already been done, and his fate or punishment decided.

The trial is a sham.
They may talk of a "New Order" in the  world, but what they have in mind is only a revival of the oldest and worst tyranny.   No liberty, no religion, no hope.   It is an unholy alliance of power and pelf to dominate and to enslave the human race.

Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2006, 06:23:14 AM »
Quote
I believe the trial is for show, the judging has already been done, and his fate or punishment decided.


True.  Probably always true of war criminals/dictators.  The alternative is to not have a trial, is that better?  I don't think so.  Make the best effort at a fair trial and execute him if (when?) he's found guilty.  The world will accept it, and be better for it.

Offline Questor

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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2006, 06:33:58 AM »
The Nuremburg trials were actually remarkably fair, in hindsight.  The Milosevic (sp?) trial was unfair because it was allowed to go on for years when really only a few weeks of actual trial should have been sufficient.  The same is shaping up for the Hussein trial in that both sides have had adequate time to prepare for a trial and they should have been done with the trial by now.  To whom are these trials unfair? The victims.
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Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2006, 06:37:52 AM »
Quote
The Nuremburg trials were actually remarkably fair, in hindsight.


But the criminals who went to trial were relatively unknown to the world.  The only equivalent would be if Hitler had been put on trial.  

I doubt this trial will last as long as Melosevic (sp?).  It's not sponsored by an "International" court.  Nothing says inefficient like an "International" court.[/b]

Offline NYH1

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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2006, 07:45:52 AM »
What specific charges are they trying Saddam for does anyone know?
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Offline Questor

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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2006, 08:03:47 AM »
For this trial, the murder of 148 people.
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Offline NYH1

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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2006, 08:11:33 AM »
Quote from: Questor
For this trial, the murder of 148 people.
Oh. I thought we invaded Iraq because he weapons of mass destruction. How come we don't try him for that?
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Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2006, 08:29:47 AM »
Quote from: New York Hunter
Quote from: Questor
For this trial, the murder of 148 people.
Oh. I thought we invaded Iraq because he weapons of mass destruction. How come we don't try him for that?


Right.....or try him for fixing the price of oil via the opec cartel?

Why are we interested in liberty in Iraq, but not in Tanesia?

WE NEED CHEAP OIL FOR OUR ECONOMY!

There, I said it........whew....I feel alot better now that I got that off my chest......This is a very simple answer for such a complex question but.........

My perception is that the circus will go on as long as the children love seeing the clowns...........
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Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2006, 02:42:58 PM »
I think they should post a heavily muscled fellow behind him with one of those miniature "Six Flags" baseball bats and remind him that every time he stands up and disrupts the proceedings with his ravings, another lump will magically appear on his cranium.

Ian
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Offline powderman

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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2006, 04:13:11 PM »
Quote from: Haywire Haywood
I think they should post a heavily muscled fellow behind him with one of those miniature "Six Flags" baseball bats and remind him that every time he stands up and disrupts the proceedings with his ravings, another lump will magically appear on his cranium.

Ian


Good one. POWDERMAN.  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:
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Offline mjbgalt

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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2006, 04:21:49 PM »
or, like a comedian once said, take the skinny top part off a two-piece fishing rod and snap that (some beach) right behind the ear with it every time he mouths off.

i bet he would shut up eventually.

-Matt
I have it on good authority that the telepromter is writing a stern letter.

Offline DirtyHarry

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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2006, 07:02:02 PM »
I believe the trial is a joke as well, from what I have seen Saddam is in complete and total control of the proceedings, I mean everyone seems to be intimidated by him and what are we on the second or third judge now?

My bet is that he will be found guilty of some lesser crimes and be exiled to Syria (or another country of his choosing).
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Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2006, 04:16:10 AM »
Quote from: DirtyHarry
I believe the trial is a joke as well, from what I have seen Saddam is in complete and total control of the proceedings, I mean everyone seems to be intimidated by him and what are we on the second or third judge now?

My bet is that he will be found guilty of some lesser crimes and be exiled to Syria (or another country of his choosing).


Seems the life span of Judges might be a little short in Iraq right now........What would you guys think about just turning him loose and apologising?

When Tito died and the Iron curtain fell, Yugoslavia suffered civil war.  Would it be better to cut a deal with Saddam (sic him on Iran) and give the country back to him or let the country slide into civil war?

Now before you all start beating on me, I'm not proposing this, but no one seems to have a plan if Saddam is found innocent.....what then?  Can we use him for our gain?

Clearly, the hatred for Americans runs deep in the middle east as we try to impose our western culture on them for the sake of the oil which we have to have.

If we as a country arn't very careful we stand a good chance of another quagmire much like vietnam and the resulting loss or many of our sons and daughters.

How do we get what we need without the loss of life?
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Offline Questor

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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2006, 05:17:42 AM »
VictorCharlie:

If this is to become a quagmire, then it's a good quagmire to be in. After 9/11 the entire Arab world was anticipating U.S. retribution. If it had not come, then it is very likely that the terrorist attacks on us would have escalated. Today we have an Arab world that knows without a doubt that if we are struck, then we will find a target and kill it even if we need to make up a patently laughable pretense like the "weapons of mass destruction" gambit.  The U.S. has physically and politically divided the Arab and Moslem worlds. Iraq is experiencing the cultural shake-down that has long been brewing there between the different sects, and the trend is toward unification and tolerance.  Iran is playing an agressive hand that has alarmed even the pacifist French so much that France is threatening the use of nuclear arms against Iran should they pose a threat to France.  Pakistan is much more vulnerable to India than it was before.  The word "moslem" has recently become a key word in the news regarding the extremism that so tragically defines Islam as a religion, thus focusing public attention in such a way that there will either need to be a shakedown within the religion, or Moslems will become persecuted around the world by an increasingly intolerant population of non-Moslems.  The American public is now so attuned to the issues of who the enemy is that public outrage followed by swift legislative response focused attention on the debatable wisdom of having a company based in Arabia manage U.S. ports.

All this at a very low cost, as wars go.

The problems I see are too much reflection on the failures of Viet Nam without remembering the necessity of that war, and the successes that it yielded to our country at a time when the expansion of Communism into Southeast Asia was a real threat indeed.  There is also the preoccupation with negativitity toward President Bush, with the public issues being "Bush lied" and "There were no weapons of mass destruction" without contemplating the necessity of our aggression. I believe the "weapons of mass destruction" ploy was devised because it's more diplomatically defensible than an argument like "we were attacked, and we're going to make somebody pay for it in a spectacular way to make sure it doesn't happen again."  That would have been more truthful, but it would be difficult baggage to carry into the future.
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Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2006, 06:23:20 AM »
I agree that we either fight them there, or fight them here.  My question is whether the american people have the resolve to stay in the fight.

I watch the likes of John Kerry and his associates stand up on national TV and make the case against staying in Iraq.  This isn't the first treasonist act he's ever done, and every time he opens his mouth it undermines our purpose and strengthens the resolve of our enemies.  I also confuses things domestically.  The pull out in Vietnam, and in Mogadesue lead our enemies to believe that if they continue to fight we will loose resolve and pull out.  The sad thing is they are probably correct as we have demenstrated that several times now.

When the body bags start coming in and the liberal media shows the crying mothers watching as our sons are lowered into the ground about half the nation starts demanding that we quit and come home.  My long time friend is worried to death that his son will get drafted and sent to Iraq.

I hate to say it but a house divided can't stand very long.  The illegal wire taps and the rest of the problems with the patriot act only focus attention to the other problems with the process.

Our liberal friends never learn, and I predict it's only a matter of time till the pressure on Washington becomes to great and we pull out.

I sure hope I'm wrong......
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Offline Questor

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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2006, 06:57:51 AM »
VictorCharlie:

I believe your concern is well founded. One often hears the question "where is there any good news from Iraq?". The reason for the question is that the average person is only considering the nightly news and the newspapers, which are inherently disposed to publish only those exceptional things that are negative in nature.  I don't believe it's a political partisanship matter, but rather a rational response to what kind of information sells papers.  In essence, the American public, demands bad news, and therefore gets it. The consequence is a self-eroding resolve.
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Offline NYH1

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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2006, 07:08:48 AM »
Retribution should have and is (kinda) being handed out in Afghanistan for 9-11. Remember it was the Taliban that was harboring Alquita. If we would have put 150,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan maybe we would have found Osama bin Laden the master mind behind 9-11! Instead we Saddam Hussein the mustard mind behind nothing and who didn't have anything to do with 9-11. Correct me if I'm wrong, It's my opinion that we picked the right fight........in the wrong place! NYH!
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Offline Questor

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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2006, 08:23:16 AM »
I don't think you're wrong. I do think that lessons were learned from Russia's occupation of Afghanistan during the '80's. Perhaps sending a what amounts to a very large search party into a huge country was seen as potentially too great a "quagmire" to result in the strong statement that we needed to make. Although we don't have 150K troops in Afghanistan today, the search for Bin Laden continues, including in Afghanistan, and by thousands of troops in that country alone.  

One common complaint by returning soldiers is that they are congratulated for their service in Iraq, when in fact they served at length in Afghanistan. Next time you thank a vet, be sure and ask what country he or she was in.  You might gain a friend that way.
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Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2006, 08:52:06 AM »
Quote from: New York Hunter
Retribution should have and is (kinda) being handed out in Afghanistan for 9-11. Remember it was the Taliban that was harboring Alquita. If we would have put 150,000 troops on the ground in Afghanistan maybe we would have found Osama bin Laden the master mind behind 9-11! Instead we Saddam Hussein the mustard mind behind nothing and who didn't have anything to do with 9-11. Correct me if I'm wrong, It's my opinion that we picked the right fight........in the wrong place! NYH!


Don't kid yourself about finding Osma......we couldn't even find Eric Rudolph hiding in the smokeys for five years and thats in our own country.  The task of finding Osama in the mountains around Afghanistan surrounded by his friends is no small task.  Finding Eric Rudolph was an accident and no great piece of police work....I suspect Osama, if he is ever found, will be found by some private going to take a leak.

I'm really pleased the way things are going in Afghanistan and wish we were in a similar situation in Iraq.  I think if we had piled 150,000 men in Afghanistan the Afgans would have seen it as an Occupation and might not have been very happy about it.......150,000 targets.  How would you feel if General Lee piled 150,000 troops in New York and declared martial law and then told you you would adopt his brand of government?  Think you might take an occasional shot when nobody's looking? Oh sorry, bad example....that already happened didn't it?

While we need to look after our own interest in Iraq we also need to let them take control.  I suggest we put the fellow in charge of Afganistan in charge of Iraq and with a little luck and a lot of hard work maybe Iraq will go the way of Afganistan and not the way of Vietnam.

Only if, and only when, the Iraqie people take control of there own destiny will there be any chance of sucess.  This might be a democracy, but it might not, just like our forefathers, they will need to pick the type of government that works for them and while a republican form of democracy works for us, there different religous and cultural beliefs are likely to lead to a different form of government.......Just as I'm unlikely to force my will on you, the US is unlikely to force it's will on them......

Hearts and minds right?

Enter Iran.......Mr. Bush is now setting the stage for "intervention" in Iran should they continue to pursue atomic energy.  I think we"re going to need a bigger army!  I'm still waiting on the Bush daughters to step up to the plate, raise there right hand, join the Army, and volunteer for service in Iraq.  Seems the burden to bear and the price to be paid always seem to fall on the middle and lower classes........I say auntie up!  If you want to stay in the game then show me some kids of wealth and privilige.  That's not to say that a few children of the powerful aren't there.  Men like Mr. Tillman will be found on ocassion.

I guess what I'm trying to point out is that Mr. Bush and his Republicans and Mr. Kerry and his Democrats are really not concerned with Mr. New York hunter or Mr. Victor Charlie and are so far out of touch with the every day people that they refuse to deal with the concerns of us the middle class.  Most all legitimate americans want the immigration laws inforced.  We don't want to be "globalized".  Do they hear our concerns?  Sure they do.....but our concerns are not the same as Mr. special interest Corporate America, and thus are quickly discarded.

Yea....its a small war......till you lose your brother or sister.......then it seems a lot bigger.  If this war is truly over liberty, and we are going to continue the fight for liberty, then there are many places around the globe we are going to have to be.

The signature I've selected might give a hint where I stand on all this......but lets make sure it's liberty we're after, not the interest of those whose money is spread across the globe, and who's only desire is for more money and more power.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
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Offline Savage .250

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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2006, 10:26:55 AM »
Ultimately this guy will get his due but i think everbody is "hedging" their bets just in case he is found not guilty. Even the judge won`t go head to head with this guy. He may be locked up but  everybody is still sacred to death of this dope.  
  Saddam is being tried by Iraqi authorities which in itself puts a lot of
  pressure on the judge/judges  who not long ago were rubber stamping
   Saddams verdicts now they have to actually come up with a verdict
   bases on evidence.  Come to think of it, isn`t  everybody over there related?  Hung jury.
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Offline Haywire Haywood

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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2006, 11:55:48 AM »
As far as Iran goes, if push comes to shove, and we're smart about it, there will never be a single troop on the ground.  Simply tell them "Ok, enough playing around.  No, you can't build that reactor.", and drop a cruise missile on the construction site... not a nuclear one mind you... conventional munitions will do nicely.  Tell them to take a line from an American movie seriously, "Build it and IT will come."

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Offline DirtyHarry

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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2006, 05:48:44 PM »
Quote from: Haywire Haywood
As far as Iran goes, if push comes to shove, and we're smart about it, there will never be a single troop on the ground.  Simply tell them "Ok, enough playing around.  No, you can't build that reactor.", and drop a cruise missile on the construction site... not a nuclear one mind you... conventional munitions will do nicely.  Tell them to take a line from an American movie seriously, "Build it and IT will come."

Ian


Thats a great idea, but I am sure Iran won't push the issue until after the next election when we will have a liberal democrat in office, because then the U.S. will do only what the u.n. allows us to do which will be absolutely nothing. Iran will then be free to do as they wish.
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Offline Greysky

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« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2006, 12:11:25 PM »
Oh, I think when America finally withdraws its troops, just before they're due to draw their retirement pensions, Saddam will have died from old age.
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Offline Mikey

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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2006, 01:55:37 AM »
#1:  He doesn't deserve a fair trial.

#2:  I think the closest they will come to a civil war is a bunch of Sunnis try to free saddam and they all get killed in the process and the Sun comes up the next morning.  Mikey.

Offline N. Michigan

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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2006, 05:03:13 AM »
The whole thing is a joke, why didn't they just turn him over to his own people the very day he was found hiding in his little hole. The thing would have been over in a few minutes, without additional cost to America. I'll bet he will walk because Bush is afraid there might be another revolt and he might have to offer another raghead the port job. :D