Author Topic: Winchester closing because of "shrinking market"?  (Read 1851 times)

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Offline Dusty Miller

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Winchester closing because of "shrinking market"?
« on: January 23, 2006, 08:21:00 AM »
On good old leftist NPR radio this morning they are reporting that Winchester is closing because of a "shrinking market".  I was under the impression that rifle sales are doing just fine but there are a lot more players in the rifle business today than say 50 years ago.  Is this correct or do I have my facts all screwed up?
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Offline PA-Joe

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 08:33:51 AM »
Henry is growing while Winchester is steady. It's Union Busting just like Remington is doing at their Plant.

Offline nasem

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2006, 02:41:12 PM »
everytime I heard or read anything about winchester closing, I get really sad  :(

Offline Siskiyou

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 04:45:59 PM »
Realistically I believe that it is a shrinking market.  Or at least a big part of it.  The number of hunting license and deer tags sold in California has dropped big time in the last twenty years.  And this is with a growing population.  I have not needed to buy a new long gun in 25 years.  

Gun shops in many rural areas of the State are shuting down.  Even with K Mart and Wally World out of the gun business in California the little guy does not have it easy.

Historically the firearms business has been a up down thing.  Much of it driven by military sales.  The Civil War, WWI, and WWII were big blips on the screen.  Just after WWII there was a big boom in the recreational long gun business.  By the 60's it was clear that the boom was over with.  Winchester changed it's line.  Remington became a power house and Winchester never recovered.  Savage has had problems.  Other names from the past fifty years have disappeared or been purchased by other manufactures, to become dormant at times.

I believe the American worker deserves a honest working wage, but does he always buy American when he goes shopping?

Yep, I do own a non-American manufactured firearm.  A British Jungle Carbine manufactured in 1944.  It is sad that we buy firearms manufactured in countries(Japan)  with the most restrictive firearm laws.
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Offline msorenso

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2006, 06:35:07 AM »
I am so  :evil:  :twisted:  :evil:  about the clsoing I can't even think... Not sure about you areas but finding Wins to buy is really getting tough arounf here.. I ve been loking for some 94 but everyone is sild out.. Anyone have any hint of where to call???
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Offline giturgun

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shrinking market
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2006, 11:44:16 AM »
The real shrinking market is our want to purchase overseas imported junk .  If there wasn't a market for them to send their junk over here , the makers overseas would be closing . That's the final straw that will ultimatly break our manufacturers backs . Go ahead and  support the manufacturers of countries where they make em but can't have em . Kommander Kerry and Feinstein are laughing at u

Offline msorenso

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2006, 02:47:39 AM »
One must remember that some of our executives in the USA do not want to give up their jobs let alone pay and do everything to keep the profit margin more and more...  Because I currently work for one of these vultures until I get done with school, I have seen it time and time again....  Steady sales to them means the same to them as a loss...  These guys do not care and don't care of what measure it take to make something cheaper with less cost for input no matter if its labor or material.. Since material is usually a fixed imput labor is the only choice..
The place I worked for always bragged american labor, well that didn't last long anf it went south and so did the business..  Even though we make profit wall street says well that not enough.. And the company does whatever it take to make more at any cost...  Greed of Corps can't be filled..It has to be more and more and I am sure Winchesters owners are no different. So really the blame is your executive, not union labor, not democrats, not the left nor the right your greed executive and personel.  And I will debate with anyone that thinks different... :D
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Offline Lone Star

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2006, 03:46:07 AM »
Debate yourself all you want, but greed has gone hand-in-hand with free enterprise as long as free enterprise has existed.  Go back two centuries to the "robber barons" of the US railroads.  Or just one, to the "steel barrons" of the early 20th century.  Whining about "greed" simply points out the limited viewpoint of the complainer - history didn't start when you were born.   A better grip on history would show that 'greed' has not - and will not - destroy either this country, or Western civilization.  Free enterprise works things out over time, it's called survival of the fittest.  In the end, we all win.   :roll:

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Offline msorenso

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2006, 04:47:10 AM »
I agree totally with free market, that why I am going intoo business for myself again.  Did once already and it was a blast..  Just wanted to move into bigger and better things.  But what I am saying is, its not that Winchester couldn't make money the question what it enough for them!  Or was it easiler to call it quits get rid of all inventory quickly and dump it?? :roll:
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Offline DavOh

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2006, 07:05:56 AM »
BOTTOM LINE....

Americans are too obscessed with price. The introduction of the "global economy" has hamstrung American business. American made products cannot make as big a profit as imported goods due to labor costs. Whatever your stance on union or corporate greed, no one can argue this. Someone needs to explain this to Mr. Bush.

Anyone who studies economics knows that in order for a global economy to truly work, all labor markets must be on a reasonably even playing field. Untill the next great depression, this will not be the case. You cannot sustain regionally compartmentalized socio-economic systems in a global economy. Labor is generally cheaper in any populated region of the world, ACCEPT here in the states. Untill the "world economy"s labor market reaches a near-equallibrium, US made products will continue to suffer. What bargaining leverage will the unions have when nothings made here anymore? Without blue collar, manufacturing jobs, America will no longer beable to avoid severe recession/depression.

At some point, the unions will have to take a hit. Along with the rest of Corporate America.

Our only defense is for the American buying public to, en masse, reject foreign products and only embrace American Products. That will be only thing that will save Red-Blooded American Companies from destruction, or at very least, offshoring.

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Offline msorenso

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2006, 06:55:48 PM »
Well put :D
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Offline Norseman

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 12:27:47 PM »
No offense intended since this is a Winchester forum and I have a venerable Model 94 lever action.  Consider the good old Marlin for a lever action anyway...they are still going strong!  Check out the amazing things they are doing with Lever actions!  A 30-30 that has been turned into a 250 yard shooter as well as the .35 Remington round to follow.  WOW!  Not to mention the 45-70 (all with pointed rounds).  You gotta check it out.  BUT..it's a total bummer about Winchester!  They what you get when you get a bunch of pointed head suits and non-sportsman types in the board room.  I will never buy a foreign gun.  So sad   :cry:   Check out Marlin and Ruger and don't be too dismayed.  Declining market...my (you know what)  LOL!   Live free or die boys!
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Offline Mac11700

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 03:49:13 PM »
Global economy..greedy buisness owners....shrinking market....the bottom line used to be...build a good realiable accurate product at a fair price..give the customer good support when it needed..this was all that was needed for so long..not anymore..now we consumers are flocking to buy cheap imports at a record pace..why???..maybe because most of our wages hasn't kept up with the rise in cost of everything else...everything has jumped in prices..healthcare,food,medicine,gasoline,the price of rent,or buying a home...everything has risen dramaticly..except for the wages of the backbone of this country..the middle class...we have to stretch our dollars further and further everyday...and we get less and less for it..and all of the law suits the gun companies have had to fight...it's no wonder the lawyers are running things...they are the only ones making the money these days...win or loose...Winchester's market share is down...and it started way back before USRA took over...as long as the idiot anti gun politicians keep getting elected..Winchester won't be the only gun company to close up shop I'm afraid..

Mac
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Offline Graybeard

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 04:14:24 PM »
The American buying public is a strange and at times stupid mass. No one wanted the Winchester rifles and shotguns when they were being made and now that they aren't any longer folks are falling all over themselves and paying premium prices for them just because they are expecting them to no longer be available. Geez it's the same gun you didn't want before but now only at inflated prices. There are millions of them out there and there will be no shortage of them on the used market for years to come. So why are folks going crazy now to buy what a short time ago no one was buying? Makes no sense to me.

I own no Winchester brand guns and have owned very few in my life time. That is because they make few of interest to me. Those they did make that might be of interest they stopped making many many long years ago. I think too many others feel as I do and that's a large part of why the guns they have been making weren't selling.


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Offline Nightrain52

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 04:32:16 PM »
:-D  :)  :-D  :)  :-D  :) I had to laugh at the beginning of your post Graybeard. Your right about the buying frenzy over the Winchester guns. All of a sudden they are a hot commodity. We have no one to blame but ourselves. We're not willing to pay the price a good quality American Made gun costs nowadays. Used to be made in America stood for something now doesn't mean anything if we can buy a foreign made product of better quality at a cheaper price. :?
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Offline Mac11700

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2006, 07:11:26 AM »
I wasn't really looking to buy any bolt rifle while I was there..but..I have a real soft spot for good looking wood..and this one is definatly has good wood on it and is built correctly..the wood to metal fit is some of the best I have seen on any mass produced Winchester of late and the checkering looks very clean and sharp.The way I figure it..is someday when my boys deceide to hunt or shoot..it will be a nice rifle to pass down to them..it's in a very good non-magnum caliber suitable for most anyones hunting needs.As to the buying frenzy..it is just that..a frenzy.I know I could have bought it cheaper a few months ago..but..that was my mistake..Now even the prices on the used guns have gone up somewhat due to it..how long will it remain so...I don't know..perhaps folks are buying now to cash in on it somewhere down the road..it seems kinda foolish to me..but..stranger things have happened..maybe folks are buying out of sentalmental reasons..or they figure they just better get a new one while they can..Who knows..I've owned quite a few Winchester in my time..and I'm sad to see them stop producing guns..I do hope a American company will buy them and continue on..

Mac
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Offline msorenso

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2006, 09:06:08 AM »
There were a few of us who haven't started the Wincester collection .. have most of my remington done.
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Offline Bullseye

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2006, 01:58:01 PM »
I went to buy a 9422 Tribute the other week.  Looked at three of them and a 357 Trails End.  All the 9422's had the butt pads about 1/16" off to one side with bare wood showing.  The nice oil finish they used to have felt very rough and the finish actually hurt the looks of the stocks.  The bluing was good though.  These were not at all like my other Winchester 94 which is about 3 years old.  If that kind of quality is what they have come to, I will miss them but it is no big loss.  At least I saved myself some money.

Offline NYH1

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Winchester closing because of "shrinki
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2006, 07:35:39 AM »
60% of the Winchester firearms I have owned have been junk! That's 3 out of 5. My luck with Winchester's go's from one extreme to the other. My pre-'64 model 88 lever action 308 in one of the best and most accurate "hunting" rifles I have ever owned. I have a model 94 356 that has been good so far. I had a model 94 30-30 that wouldn't shoot a good group for anything, I'm talking 4 or 5 inch groups at 100 yards with a scope! A Ranger 120 20 ga. that the ejection spring would come out with the spent shell. Had it fix time and time again. Last but not least was the worst firearm I have ever owned a model 94 big bore in 444 Marlin. Every time I shot it the action would lock up and I would have to pry it open. The worst part about this rifle is that Winchester didn't want to know nothing because I owned it over a year before I shot it. Having said that I hate to see any company go out of business but I wouldn't buy another Winchester no matter what, not a newer one anyway's! I always wanted a model 70 Featherweight in 308 but I would never buy one because of my past luck with Winnies!
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Offline His lordship.

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« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2006, 09:16:55 AM »
In 2000 I wanted a lever action rifle and was leaning toward a Model 94.  Went to a local retailer now out of business, called Galyans.  The Model 94 on display for sale had a very loose butstock, I wondered how it left the factory like that.  I chose the Marlin in 30-30 instead.  I had also heard problems with their 1300 pump action shotgun, why mess around when a Mossberg will work just fine for the cheap price.

After several months of shooting the Marlin, the lever was not wearing evenly next to the receiver and left a mark where the bluing was worn away.  The steel on the hammer seemed soft too.  Accurate gun otherwise.  I traded it off and stayed with the bolt actions.

I was considering the Model 70, but the Remington 700 and the Ruger 77 were cheaper.  Ended up getting a CZ 550, very nicely made, accurate and at $425.00 new in the box, a bargain.  If Winchester had a rifle of that quality I would have purchased it.  The Remington and Rugers are ok, but not like the CZ in fit and finish.

Winchester did not seem to have the product selection and availability as the Remington and Ruger have.  It looks like Winchester bombed in the marketing of their product as well as spotty quality control.