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Offline kombi1976

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Who has a 25-20?
« on: December 08, 2005, 02:14:27 PM »
I bought a BSA Martini Cadet sporter in 25-20 earlier this year mainly to use for small game, but also because I've always wanted a good single shot 25-20.
It allows me to use which bullet shape I like(no tube mag) and I'm only limited to lighter bullet weights by the small powder capacity.
It's presently at having a Weaver rail fitted and getting a trigger job done but I'm interested in what other people are using this little cartridge for.
Who has a 25-20 and which model is it?
What sort of shooting do you with it(hunting/target/western action) and which loads do you use?
How accurate do you find it?
Here's a pic of mine on the day I bought it.
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.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Idaho_Hick

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2005, 08:38:01 AM »
Well, I don't have one but have always wanted one.  Looks like you got yourself a very nice rifle.  I think you will enjoy shooting it a lot.  A friend has an old winchester '92 so chambered and it is very fun to shoot - very quiet and yet more oomph than a rimfire.  It used to be popular around here with the oldtimers for deer hunting, but of course is not recommended as such.  
An american hunting author, Francis Sell, had a lot of good things to say about the 25-20 as a woods rifle, but you will probably be hard put to find his work.  All the same, I enjoy his articles.  Good luck with your new rifle and let us know how she shoots for you.
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Offline wink_man

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2005, 08:57:03 AM »
Pretty gun, best of luck with it. The 25-20 may not be recommended as a deer cartridge, but James Jordan shot what was the number 1 whitetail for many years, with a 25-20.
Sincerely,
 Garry
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Offline Lone Star

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2005, 11:05:57 AM »
I own two, a Marlin M1894CL and an EA Brown falling block handgun.  I use the Marlin for hunting edible small game, including hare and spruce hen (grouse).  My preferred load is with AA7 and the Speer 75-grain flat nose bullet.  This bullet kills small game well due to its broad flat nose, doesn't need a lot of velocity to do it - 1500 to 1700 fps is plenty - and it doesn't tear up meat like a .22 Mag does.  Accuracy is limited by the rifle, but 1.5 moa is not too tough scoped.  I use a receiver sight and that's all I need at typical 10-40 yard small game hunting ranges.

The handgun likes loads with the Sierra 75HP or the Speer 87-grain TNT bullets; H110 and IMR4227 are the preferred powders.  This is a highly accurate handgun and will shoot aggregates (four 5-shot groups) averaging 0.55 moa.  The .25-20 is as accurate as any other cartridge for any practical use, limited by the bullets and firearm rather than by any cartridge design features.
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Offline kombi1976

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2005, 01:23:42 PM »
I've seriously considered using the Hornady 75gn V-Max but I'm not sure the cartridge would push them fast enough for them to properly open up, even though Customer Service at Hornady said they'd be fine.
I too have some 75gn Sierra Varminters that should make up some good loads, but I also have about half a pack of Hornady 60gn FPs, some Taipan 75gn FPs and some 87gn Sierra Varminter Spitzers so it'll be a case of seeing which loads work best.
Is it worth pushing the velocity of these?
Is it safe to load them up a little more since they aren't in a lever gun?
Incidentally, I scored an old steel tube Weaver K-6 for it yesterday so it should prove to a nice package.
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.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Reloader

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Marlin 25-20
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2005, 07:48:47 PM »
I've got one of the Marlins in 25-20.  I'm shooting 86 grain Remington flat point bullets in front of 12.0 grains IMR 4198.  I haven't done a lot of shooting with it but find that it does a pretty good job on a water filled milk jug at 100-200 yards.  From the bench my three shot groups have run from 1.5 - 2.5 inches at 100 yards.  I haven't tried other loads to see if this would improve.  Also haven't shot a lot of groups to really see if this is the norm.

Fun little gun to shoot though and I take it out from time to time just to plink.   I've would like to try it on coyotes sometime, but I've got too many other rifles to think of using this on deer as I think most would say it is marginal at best for this purpose.
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Offline kombi1976

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2005, 03:19:59 AM »
I can see mine being perfect for rabbits, hares and foxes out to a medium range and it would polish off the odd feral cat too.
A mate said it would even be suitable for goats up close with an 87gn bullet, but then he was a professional shooter until recently and is a better shot than me by far.
Serious fun, of course, would be pigeons, or flying rats as we call them.
Make mess of Indian Mynas too.
They're a big pest here.
It should behave like a .22 Mag with the extra thump when it hits.
It's a pity no one makes 60gn HPs though. :|
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.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline RicMic

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2005, 05:11:51 PM »
I have a Savage 23-B Sporter in 25-20.  I load 11 grains of AA-1680 behind a Remington 86 grain bullet for 1800 fps.  This gun flat shoots, I can hit a golf ball at 50 yards with open sights no problem.  This winter I am thinking of having it drilled and tapped for scope mounting (this gun really has no collector value).  I love the round, six groundhogs this past summer did not.  I think it's a great walking around gun for general pest control.
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Offline kombi1976

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2005, 08:25:17 PM »
The Savage is a bolt gun, right?
Should be a nice little unit.
So you get 1800fps using 11gn of AA1680 behind a 86gn....sounds a tad hot to me.
I'm using ADI's AR2205, which is a close equivalent, and the maximum recommended load is 8.6gn at 1545fps.
I loaded some 87gn Spitzers with 8.5gn and I expect a similar MV but even with the Martini's superior strength I'd be hesitant to bump it up that much.
I'm getting some AR2207 which with a 11.5gn max is supposed to clock about 1670fps with 86gn bullets however it's still a good 130fps slower. :(
Have you chronographed these?
Is this over recommended maximums?
Do you find you have short case life since the walls are pretty thin?
I'm interested to find out how this cartridge can be pushed a little in something stronger than a lever gun.:|

Meanwhile here's a pic of the Cadet since it has been scoped:



The scope is an old Weaver K6-1 steel tube I picked up cheaply and I added the ammo band to avoid having to fish in my pocket for the next round.
The trigger has also been dropped from just over 5lbs to just under 3lbs of pull.
Now all I have to do is get it zeroed in and get used to a trigger which is single stage without creep, unlike my ShtLE and M98 which both have the 2 stage trigger and more creeps than a singles bar on 70s Disco Dress-Up night. :mrgreen:
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.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Leftoverdj

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2006, 06:14:11 PM »
I have a Savage 23 and mostly use it as a plinker and small game rifle. It's a much better killer than the .22s at 22 lr velocities without tearing up much meat. It's also a very good cast bullet cartridge.

Years ago, I killed a few groundhogs with it using the 75 grain Sierra HP over a max charge of WW-680. Opened up reasonably well and was nicely accurate. Not sure what you have to shoot in Australia, but that load oughta work nicely on anything up to 30 pounds out to 150 yards.
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Offline kombi1976

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2006, 02:48:34 PM »
It's hard to get Winchester powders here and besides I tend to us the ADI powders.
The closest equivalent to W680 is AR2207 and I bought some of that the other day with this purpose in mind.
I have no reservations about max loads & I have exactly those Sierra bullets so I'll let you know how they shoot.
I took the Martini to an 50m(60yds) indoor range in Sydney on Wednesday and it consistently shot 1" 3 shot groups.
The 2 real surprises were some Sierra 87gn Spitzers I'd loaded to about 1525fps.
I expected them to really drop between their 25m POI and their 50m POI.
Instead there was no change at all and they brought in some great groups.
The other was 3 flat point rounds I can only presume were 75gn and I just had them lying around.
I wish I knew what the exact load was because they shot a 1/2 inch group at 50m.
I'm getting a chance to test the Cadet at 100yds next weekend & for obvious reasons are really looking forward to it.
I'll let you know how things go.
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Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline jrdavis

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 08:51:28 AM »
man I like your stock...where you get it ...the gun looks to have the original barrel on with sights indicating it has a sleeve (redmond I guess) that what mine is! I foung a mold and shoot cast bullets (have to look up the load)
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Offline minker

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2006, 12:19:06 PM »
i've got a bunch of 25/20's , you can call me a certified 25/20 nutt ! 1892 winchesters , model 53 and 65's , model 94 marlin's original and new made , marlin and remington pumps, win. 1885 low wall, stevens 44  s/s ,savage 23's, custom t/c contender carbine. i love the little cartridge , small game , varmits , i've shot deer with it too where legal. i have a large quality of the original winchester 60 gr. " mushroom " hollow points and they are real killers. i mostly use cast bullets , 60-65 gr.s and 85-86 grs. the hornady 60 gr. flat points aren't bad bullets either and the rem. 86 gr. soft points are good.  i've always wanted a double rifle in 25/20 , i saw one finally at a ohio gun collectors show last year. $15,000.00  ,  guess i'll wait !  i even have a 1873 winchester in 25/20 , someone pulled the original 32/20 barrel and put a 25/20 barrel on it.  i load black powder loads for it .  always wanted a single action revolver in 25/20 .  colt made 2  single action armys in 25/20 , both are in a museum somewhere i read one time .  i'm a 32/20 nutt too !  mark
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Offline RicMic

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2006, 08:19:43 AM »
Load data from Accurate Arms lists 12.5 grains of 1680 behind a Speer 75 grain bullet for 1983FPS and 10.7 behind a 90grain lead for 1764FPS with 23,800 CUP.  Max pressure seems to be 28,000 CUP so I think I'm ok as my loads have chrono'ed at just under 1800FPS with 11 grains.
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Offline hdj2520

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25-20
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2006, 09:29:31 AM »
Does anybody still sell a 60 grain bullet?
I use 86 grain remingtons with 9.0gr IMR 4227 with good results. My 80gr
cast bullets do much better at 8.0/ 4227.
 I,m using a Marlin 1894cl with a peep rear and brockman post front, a great little setup for woods bumming. On anything smaller than deer it's
ideal.
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Offline minker

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2006, 04:39:52 PM »
hornady i believe still makes there 60 gr. flat nose .  the old remington and winchester 60 gr. mushroom  hollowpoints were the best . i have bought some  off of internet gun sites . look around . 60 gr. cast bullets i use are  great too . i load 60's with 11 grs of 2400 or 12 grs of 4227 . 86's  , 9 grs of 2400 or 10 grs of 4227.  i've shot quite a few deer with it in La. , head shots . an old proffesional trapper i know of killed many black bears with 25/20's in U.P. Mich.  but it really just a small game and varmit round .  i pack one around every day while out on the trapline.   not sure if its allowed on here but i do have a 25/20 for sale . savage 23b sporter with a scope , excellant condition . still has the front and rear original sites as well as a 3x9 scope.  

mark
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Offline hdj2520

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25-20
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2006, 03:15:08 AM »
Sounds nice, got any pictures?
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Offline minker

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Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2006, 03:35:08 PM »
no , i don't have a digital camera or a scanner to get a pic on here .  its a real nice gun . not 100% but i'd call it 90% .

mark
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2006, 05:28:22 PM »
  I still have two 25/20's.  The first one is a custom S&W "K" frame 6 shot revolver with 5" bbl..



  I swage my own design SWC "keith" style bullets with swage dies that were made by Ted Smith and myself in Teds shop.  You can see the SWC design in the center loaded round in the pict..





  My second 25/20 is a one of a kind left hand T-bolt single shot rifle, that was built long ago in my shop.



  It's basically a "center fire" version of Brownings old T-bolt rimfire.  I have fired this rifle, but i still don't have the stock finished for it.  It's on my "to do" list....





  Anyway, i hope you like the picts...

  Drilling Man
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2006, 01:32:37 AM »
Gee, I really have been slack. :-[
The 25-20 at 100yds will group 5 shots in around an inch........using 75gn Flat Points! :)
Yup, very nasty.
Since I last posted I've blooded it twice.
Here's a pic of the first bunny I thumped with it.



It was only at 20yds but he was well hidden in brush and I actually had to fix my eye on where I judged he had to be, sort of de-focus like you do with those hidden trick images, and then he suddenly came into view.
On my hunting trip about 4 weeks back I nailed another bunny through the neck at around 40yds and he didn't even kick.
Both were taken using the aforementioned 75 grainers.
Some things should be changing so my access to a 100yd range will be far easier and when that happens I'll try and tune it more and see if I can get get 5 shots sub MOA.
I think the heavy bbl on it is really up for some fine tuning.
At present it's just running about 0.5gn off max loads but to be honest it's probably capable of a lot more, at least in terms of the Martini action.
The load, according to QuikLOAD data, is clocking 2100fps with a peak chamber pressure of 26,000 psi and people regularly chamber Cadets to 357 Mag which heads for more like 40,000 psi.
Mind you the case walls are much thicker on the 357 but I think you see my point.
Drilling Man, I love that rifle action of yours.
It should be fascinating to see how it shoots with a stock on it.
What sort of stock design have you decided on?
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Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2006, 04:02:46 PM »
Quote
Drilling Man, I love that rifle action of yours. It should be fascinating to see how it shoots with a stock on it. What sort of stock design have you decided on?

  The stock for the T-bolt 25/20 is an old walnut Rem.580 series stock.  I have the action in the stock, i just need to finish the job of putting together...  It's on the list like a million other projects.....   ???

  Drilling Man
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2006, 04:04:23 PM »
Quote
Drilling Man, I love that rifle action of yours. It should be fascinating to see how it shoots with a stock on it. What sort of stock design have you decided on?

  The stock for the T-bolt 25/20 is an old walnut Rem.580 series stock.  I have the action in the stock, i just need to finish the job of putting together...  It's on the list like a million other projects.....   ???

  Drilling Man
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Offline hdj2520

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2006, 03:49:57 AM »
I'm very interested in that K-frame. Any problems with extraction? Who did the work? I would love one in a Ruger single action.
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Offline coopershooter

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2006, 09:47:54 AM »
i'd like a 21 inch barrel in 25-20 for my contender carbine!
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Offline Drilling Man

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2006, 04:19:10 AM »
Quote
I'm very interested in that K-frame. Any problems with extraction? Who did the work? I would love one in a Ruger single action.

  I have no problems with extraction at all, and the work was done by Vern Ewer in Wa. state.  His work it top quality, but i heard he's doing work for the gov. full time now.

  Drilling Man
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Offline hdj2520

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2006, 04:28:10 AM »
THE GOVERNMENT? MAYBR THEY'RE SWITCHING FROM 9MM TO 25-20  ;D
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Offline kombi1976

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Re: Who has a 25-20?
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2006, 06:06:45 AM »
Quote from: hdj2520 on August 11, 2006, 04:28:10 AM
THE GOVERNMENT? MAYBR THEY'RE SWITCHING FROM 9MM TO 25-20  ;D
Ho, ho, ho.....how droll!  ::) :D
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Cheers & God Bless

.22lr ~ 22 Hornet ~ 25-20 ~ 303/25 ~ 7mm-08 ~ 303 British ~ 310 Cadet ~ 9.3x62 ~ 450/400 NE 3"
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