Author Topic: Short of a Gun, What is best for personal protection? (Read 1772 times)

Whiskey · « **on:** January 26, 2006, 04:47:46 AM »

Knives, Tasers, OC Spray, "Stun" Guns......

Short of carrying a handgun, what is the best personal protection device(s) especially for a nimrod or a woman. What about places with severe gun control and other protection device laws (like Canada) ??

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2006, 06:22:31 AM »

A good set of running shoes and a cell phone programmed to 911...I carry a Mag-Lite flashlight in my truck right down next to my seat but I have yet to need to use it as a club...It is there if need be.

I guess pepper spray would be the easiest to use in an emergency...A knife is not an answer unless you are skilled in its use. A Taser is most likely illegal as well as stun guns...

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2006, 09:55:16 AM »

Fleetness of foot (as suggested by Whitetailer) is your best bet. However, I'm 62 years old and outrunning an assailant is probably not going to be my answer!

jimster · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2006, 02:33:24 PM »

I think Dusty and WNY_Whitetailer have something there.
Practice running as much as you can, get fast.

Honestly, I have thought about what I'd do if I had to live in a place where they had severe gun control, and franky, no matter how much I think about it, I can't come up with anything I'd feel comfortable with if going up against bad people with guns. If they don't have guns, the things that will be suggested here such as good pepper spray would be better than nothing, and like Whitetailer says, forget the knife unless you are well trained. Plus, carrying a knife might be against the law there too, wouldn't doubt it.
I think I'll admit now, if I HAD to live in a place that would not let good people arm themselves against bad people, I'd probably be in prison myself for carrying a gun anyway. I don't recommend breaking laws, and I'm not suggesting anyone does though.

I'm wondering if a good sling shot with big ball bearings could be used, if one practiced a lot...?? Never heard anyone suggest this, but when we were kids we got VERY good with sling shots.
Anyone ever think of sling shots??

rockbilly · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2006, 03:55:21 PM »

Had that problem several years ago. To solve it, I went to Wal Mart and bought a little league aluminum ball bat, left it in the factory wrapper and put a bow and card on it that said Happy Birthday to one of my grandsons. I didn't think a cop would haul me in for carrying a weapon if it were disguised as a present. I never had to use it, but it rode around with me for a year or so. :wink:

williamlayton · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2006, 01:36:00 AM »

I carried a 2 1/2' piece of 500 cu in the company car for many years.
Blessings

Mikey · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2006, 02:09:12 AM »

You have one of two options here - either a spray can of Raid Wasp and Hornet Killer and a butane lighter, or a spray can of Engine Starting Fluid and a butane lighter.

Either the Raid or the Starting Fluid should incapacitate even the most aggressive assailant or dog and if they still seem short a few brain cells you can flick your bic and toastem up.

FYI - a stream of Raid can shoot 20-25 feet - add a flick of the bic to it and it is a flamethrower. The same goes for starting fluid. I have used both to take outhornet and wasp nests hanging in trees, from a distance, and the result is pretty spectacular. Hit them once with a good shot, and then hit them with fire.

The last time I was at my local cop shop a couple of young ones were talkin' up their mace. When I mentioned either Raid or starting fluid they both opined that it seemed a bit 'hard'. Oh duhhhhhhh! Mikey.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2006, 02:21:21 AM »

Well in my opinion, if the attacker is armed with a gun, nothing short of a gun will work. I am not putting running shoes for anyone, I carry a gun. Don't become a victim. If your State does not allow CCW, lock yourself in the house because one day something bad is going to happen. In reality there is not a one answer solution to your question.

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2006, 03:03:42 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1

Well in my opinion, if the attacker is armed with a gun, nothing short of a gun will work. I am not putting running shoes for anyone, I carry a gun. Don't become a victim. If your State does not allow CCW, lock yourself in the house because one day something bad is going to happen. In reality there is not a one answer solution to your question.

Ummm...Whiskey was looking for items other than a gun...That is why I suggested sneakers...I do like the Raid suggestion...Pretty neat and not too obvious...Of course I don't carry a lighter so I guess just straight raid in the eyes will have to do.

Ocsamschainsaw · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2006, 07:33:22 AM »

A good awareness of your environment, a clean, sober mind, and being in good physical and mental health?
You could be The Incredible Hulk, but if you're stumbling on home at 3 am through the wrong part of town seeing glowing neon signs in triplicate....I'd think there's not much you could have on you to protect yourself effectively.
Edited to add:
Being of a good state of health generally (encompassing physical, emotional and mental aspects) also would, I think, allow you to better make use of what you have at hand in your environment at the time of any sort of attack ocurring.
I'd imagine quite a few shooting and mugging victims actually had quite a few weapons at their disposal (debris, pieces of half done construction, a well placed boot) that they didn't use because they GAVE UP, or were simply too panicked to do anything outside of the "fight or flight" decision, which isn't truly their fault, since we as a society have been conditioned to "give in" and not think inside that creepy little compression that happens when things go south.
How do I know this?
I'm not a cop. I'm not a soldier.
But I am a home invasion victim, multiple assailants. And yes, I had guns out the yin yang in the house, but it doesn't do much good when you've spent the weekend drinking, smoking, staying up too late, like so many people my age (younger) do-and especially not when you just freeze up like a deer in headlights. That's what got me to moderate drinking, to start exercising, and to start trying to develop a healthy mindset, so I wouldn't BE caught with my pants down, so to speak, again.
Didn't mean to go on and ramble, hehe, sorry...

jimster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2006, 10:59:58 AM »

Ocsamschainsaw....you hit on some VERY important things.
Mental awareness is everything. Being on your toes and knowing what's around you, and yes, being in good shape.
I started excersing a lot a couple years ago, it's given me more awareness, more energy, and confidence.
And I hardly ever take a drink, cause when I do, I have to have my gun locked up and the ammo seperated from it to be legal.

Hey, you weren't rambling man, you brought up the most important part of keeping out of trouble, or being able to fight back. Whether armed or not, being alert and in shape can make all the difference.

kjeff50cal · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2006, 02:48:26 PM »

One weapon that is very deadly and can be brought on board an airline without a "bat" of an eye and is legal everywhere is..... a cane (or walking stick)!!! Another is an umbrella.

I saw an interesting wooden cane at the NRA convention last year. It had a heavy nickled butt cap that looked like it was from a dualing pistol with a grip to match. I would hate to get on the wrong end of that cane :shock: . Even the .99 cent special at the dollar store can be put to defensive use.

There are quite a few schools that teach cane tactics although it is not a good defense against a gun, anything else (look up fillipino stick fighting) all bets are off.

kjeff50cal

Whiskey · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2006, 03:23:15 PM »

Quote from: jimster

Ocsamschainsaw....you hit on some VERY important things.
Mental awareness is everything. Being on your toes and knowing what's around you, and yes, being in good shape.
I started excersing a lot a couple years ago, it's given me more awareness, more energy, and confidence.
And I hardly ever take a drink, cause when I do, I have to have my gun locked up and the ammo seperated from it to be legal.

Hey, you weren't rambling man, you brought up the most important part of keeping out of trouble, or being able to fight back. Whether armed or not, being alert and in shape can make all the difference.

I liked what chainsaw said as well. I quit drinking (serious health scare and just decided to quit) and I think that helps a lot. Been working out some too. I figure your primary weapon is between your ears so whatever supports that system sure can't hurt. Most people talk big about blowing someone away but its a big deal. Even if in your home (If not, in this state you better be ready for a trial) but even so civil suits, scumbag family member retaiation, etc. can be in your future. Doesn't mean you shouldn't defend yourself, just realize the possible consequences and be ready for them.

Being in shape, sober, ready to take leg bail as a first option, seem pretty sensible to me. It is a dilemna nontheless. You can avoid a lot of problems by being aware, for sure. BTW I like the baseball bat option too, in CA that can be considered an illegal weapon to carry in your vehicle so the wrapping & bow are excellent advice....... "yes sir, officer, you oughta see my boy hit that T-Ball :grin:

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2006, 04:09:05 PM »

I'm also with chainsaw on this, awareness of your surroundings is your best defense. Most of the time a potential attacker will be looking for the person not paying attention. If you look alert and aware of them they rarely attempt anything. I normally carry a 24oz striaght claw hammer in the door of my truck, it comes in really handy. I used to carry a small t ball bat but the hammer is a little more intimidating and comes in a lot handier at work. I've only had to use it once, it was very effective.

Whiskey · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2006, 06:18:31 AM »

Quote from: Thebear_78

I'm also with chainsaw on this, awareness of your surroundings is your best defense. Most of the time a potential attacker will be looking for the person not paying attention. If you look alert and aware of them they rarely attempt anything. I normally carry a 24oz striaght claw hammer in the door of my truck, it comes in really handy. I used to carry a small t ball bat but the hammer is a little more intimidating and comes in a lot handier at work. I've only had to use it once, it was very effective.

A hammer comes in more handy at work than a ball bat? Hard to imagine! (if you're Barry Bonds) :-D

rockbilly · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2006, 07:31:14 AM »

Another item that works great is a CO2 fire extinguisher. If they are up close and personal, they will put a hurt on an individual for a few minutes. That should give you time to get the running shoes on and hit the pavement, I hope your wife and children have theirs, and can run as fast as you do........... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Whiskey · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2006, 04:30:12 PM »

Quote from: rockbilly

Another item that works great is a CO2 fire extinguisher. If they are up close and personal, they will put a hurt on an individual for a few minutes. That should give you time to get the running shoes on and hit the pavement, I hope your wife and children have theirs, and can run as fast as you do........... :roll: :roll: :roll:

If the kids can't outrun me,they're in trouble, shore...... :roll: [/b]

ShadowMover · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2006, 08:39:50 AM »

I wouldn't like being in the stream of a CO2 extinguisher, BUT, I would like being in the stream of a common 'dry powder' common extinguisher even less. The powder is some very nasty choking stuff, as anyone who has a chance to be anywhere near the stuff can verify. I don't think it is very toxic, but it sure is unpleasant, and it hangs in the air, your hair, and on your clothes too.

Greeenriver · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2006, 02:24:21 PM »

Ther have been some very good points brought out here. The best wepon you have is between your ears. Usae it. There are NO dangerous wepons, just dangerous people. Learn to be one.

Running is out of the question for me. Age and health prohibit that option for me. I use a cain for walking, and when I can't carry a gun, which is VERY seldom, I replace my normal cain with a nice White Oak walking stick that just happens to have a rather decent and heavy brass nob on the top of it. I learned how to use it effectivly years ago, and since my little stroke, have worked to modify my abilities with it to something I can still depend on.

I still fvor a pistol, but there are some places that I just can't cary one that I still need access to. Court house, banks, ect. The walking stick is available in these places.

Greeenriver

rockbilly · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2006, 12:17:21 PM »

Luckly, at my age I am too old to fight, I just don't heal like I use to, I can't run very fast, or far, but I do have a gift of gab. If I can't out talk a smart man, then I hope I can out shoot a fool. You can bet, when I am out in public there is SOMETHING in my pocker, loaded and ready should it be needed.

But I agree, the best weapon any of us has is on our shoulders......... :wink: :wink:

K.K. · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2006, 02:43:07 PM »

Jeff Cooper says that a man fights with his mind, the weapons are simply the cutting edge. I agree, though I carry a gun every day. My wife was saved one day from an irate truck driver that jack-knifed his truck and couldn't back up. My wife and two lanes of traffice were behind her, so she couldn't back up. He became irate and ran up to her window shouting threats and expletives. My wife simply kept her head, and calmly rolled down the windo to reveal a 150 pound snarling Rottweiler that came from the back seat to her lap! She said the wind immediately left his sails! I think that a good dog of just about any large breed is a great deterrent, and just about any dog would alert the family to an intruder. I vote for man's best friend!

Whiskey · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:39:46 PM »

Quote from: K.K.

J I vote for man's best friend!

Its just a little tough to carry a rotweiller around with you to the theater, restaurants, etc. :grin:

Ocsamschainsaw · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2006, 04:50:26 PM »

A roll of quarters in the hand always works nice for a good thump.
Also, if you've just been down to the grocer...wrap the handles of that plastic bag around your wrist and give the bag a twist. You've just gotten yourself a nice bludgeon, especially if you're carrying something like canned dog food or a can of tuna.
There's a little object out there called a Centurion Control Stick that I've had the opportunity to be trained in, and you might wish to give it a shot. it looks like a simple metal cylinder, and can actually be had in container form, for medication or earplugs or hearing aid batteries or whatever to give it legitimacy, but it has a tapered, rounded end that's nice for actuating pressure points without fumbling around for them. Best of all, it looks very innocuous, can be held in one hand without anyone seeing it, and works on pain compliance, not on blunt traume, chemical traume or cutting wounds.
If you can work that into someone's clavicle notch or mandibular angle (that's a NASTY one), they're doing whatever it is you want them to. I had the stick worked on my suprascapular nerve during the course and oh dear....almost passed out right there, probably would have if the instructor applied more than the 50 percent force we were using for that.

Daks · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2006, 12:18:42 PM »

Read "Attack Proof" by John Perkins. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0736003517/103-6388373-1711806?v=glance&n=283155

PaulS · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2006, 01:26:33 PM »

Let me begin with the fact that I am a minister - and I carry concealed.

Why do I carry? Sometimes God is too busy to notice that I might need some help so I take it on my own to do that.
I stay out of situations where I feel unsafe - I would really rather not have to kill someone.

The second best self defense? It only comes out in second place. Where your life and the lives of those you love are concerned there is no second best. I don't go into stores that are posted. I figure that places like the courthouse and airport are probably safe enough to wander around in as long as you keep your wits about you and stay alert. Using your head and keeping a calm demeanor is key whether you have a gun or not. You only have about a half a second to do what you are going to do if the other guy has his gun out. That is damn little time to be active and a long time to wait. I can't run, and fighting would more than likely result in my getting badly injured whether I won the fight or not. I take a very pragmatic position on defense and realize that if someone is "out to get you" they can and even carrying a gun won't prevent it but for the "victim of the moment" kind of lawbreaker the gun is the best "first line" defense.

Pike · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2006, 08:16:03 AM »

There have been alot of good ideas presented in these responses just remember that you have to practice whatever form of self defense that you chose. Once a month at the range won't do it and niether will working out just once in a while. Another major factor to consider is are you willing to go the distance with your attacker or will you submit. Only experience can tell you the answer.You must also know what the law is in you area is as far as what you can legally do. In my state you are permiited to only use as much force as needed to get away from your attacker. There are also times when,as a person of middle age, I am places with my family that I cannot carry a walking stick or a fire extinguishiser. You must be aware of your surroundings and try to stay away from dangerous situations. If you cannot do this then try to project an air of confidence that lets the other person know that you are not someone to fool with. If you feel comfortable with a cw more power to you, just be sure of what you are during if not then get trainning is a self defense such as Judo and practice,practice,practice. Just my thoughts

chevyfan1a4 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 16, 2006, 06:47:59 PM »

Fox Labs Pepper Spray. The best, strongest, and hottest there is. You can get a can of it for about $25.

papajohn428 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2006, 06:11:51 PM »

"If you look like food you will be eaten." I do my best to look pi$$ed off, nutty as a bedbug, and ready to fight. I'm four-foot-eighteen, semi-old, bald, and not physically imposing. But I'm aware of my surroundings, and I know that if I stare at the wolf, his eyes will go elsewhere. Crazy people are scary, and bad guys don't want to mess with with a wack-job. For all they know, I've got an Uzi under my coat, and I'm just ITCHING to use it on somebody who messes with me. Even a handful of keys will take out a pair of eyeballs. My whole persona in a bad place is that of a psychotic weirdo. Nobody bothers me. BG's like sheep, and I look like a sheepdog, minus the cute haircut!

Papajohn