Author Topic: Entitlements  (Read 3307 times)

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Offline nomosendero

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« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2006, 05:57:15 PM »
I think your rant is justified. I am more than a little upset myself & I also
feel that I have been lied to. If a true independent could rise to the occasion, I would do anything in my power to help. But at the same time,
we have to watch for someone who has no intention of winning & runs to split the Conservative (I should say more conservative) vote. All it would take is someone who says he will fix the fuel situation & the Illegals, (2 hot issues) & tell it convincingly. Even if he knows he isn't going to win, he can split the vote & Hillary walks in. I sure wasn't sitting in the room, but
I believe this kind of deal was struck between Clinton & Perot. I do not think Hillary will run unless simular arrangements can be made. If it sounds like just another conspiracy theory, fine but Perot knew for sure he could not win the 2nd time. I sure won't get bowed up if folks don't believe this, but to me it is not a conspiracy theory at all, but good ole
Arkansas politics, seen it before. They will keep using what works.

But yes, victorcharlie, if I think someone is for real & they run to win
with backing to win, count me in!
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2006, 02:27:41 AM »
Well fellows, As I already stated, I have never voted for a democrat.  Honestly, Bill Clinton was a womanizing scoundrel, but he had $8 dollar a barrel oil and the best economy of my lifetime.  I suppose the argument could be made that Regan and Bush set him up for the good economy, I don't know.  

Yea, he passed the assult weapon bill and that might have affected you, but didn't affect me at all.

There were alot of Clintons policy's that I didn't agree with, but Mr. Bush, and the way he's stepped on the constitution make me wish we had Bill Clinton back  :eek: (Gulp) I never thought I'd say something like that!

My point is that with George Bush, or Hillary Clinton in office, the results at the end of the day are going to be about the same.  The rich will get richer, at the expense of the poor.

I don't see how voting for one or the other is going to take me, victorcharlie, or the rest of the country where I think we need to be going.

To vote for either one is to vote for more of the same.  It's time for a serious third party candidate to sit in the white house, and I hope to see a few of his allies in congress.

This is a complete reversal of my position after the little general thrust Bill Clinton into office.  I said I'd never vote third party again, but  I never thought the Republicans would sell us out like they have......

fool me once, shame on you.....fool me twice....shame on me.......fool me three times like they did and I've finally learned.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2006, 05:55:06 AM »
Quote
My point is that with George Bush, or Hillary Clinton in office, the results at the end of the day are going to be about the same. The rich will get richer, at the expense of the poor.


Hillary is as close to a true socialist as America has seen since FDR.  She absolutely will take from those who have money and give it to those who don't.

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2006, 07:30:48 AM »
Quote from: dukkillr
Quote
My point is that with George Bush, or Hillary Clinton in office, the results at the end of the day are going to be about the same. The rich will get richer, at the expense of the poor.


Hillary is as close to a true socialist as America has seen since FDR.  She absolutely will take from those who have money and give it to those who don't.


You don't think that redistribution of wealth is already occuring?  Think outside the box and read:

http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline nomosendero

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« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2006, 02:07:25 PM »
Of course, but she will speed it up big time. VC, I agree with alot of what you say, I just see it as the Democraps having a different timetable.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2006, 02:44:48 PM »
Quote from: nomosendero
Of course, but she will speed it up big time. VC, I agree with alot of what you say, I just see it as the Democraps having a different timetable.


Note in one post I said I was tired of picking my poison.  Poison will kill you, just some poison kills quicker than others.  If I have to get the that place, then the sooner we are there the sooner we can start on the road back.

Or, we can choose to no longer take the poison, change the road were on, and get back to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

So it takes a few more years to get to the same results with Mr. Bush over Mrs. Clinton.  We still wind up in the same situation just at a different time.

I'm picking the road less traveled, but if we must continue on the path we're on then quicker is usually less painful.

Either way, neither party is interested in doing things the way I want it done, so, there fired.....I'll cast my vote for someone who has a little different idea about things......If Hillary winds up in the white house because of it them I guess we take the fast lane to socialism....
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Echo4Lima

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« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2006, 03:12:50 PM »
You all REALLY think theres no difference in the end result between Billary and W?

Go to the tax cuts.  With out listening to any retoric from either side, who got the tax cuts? Answer.....anybody that PAID taxes!  Sure, people that made more got more. Why?  'Cause THEY PAID MORE!!  The Lefties, including Billary, wanted to give a tax refund to people that DID NOT pay ANY taxes!!

Hows that work? Tax refund even though you didnt pay ANY?  Go figure...

As far as I'm concerned thats a big load of manipulating crap all that "rich getting richer, poor getting poorer"!!  Look at the stats, MORE people have come UP in America economically than DOWN under Bush.  Same when Reagan was in.  Same thing  after the failure of the 1st 2 years of Bill. After the mid terms he figured it out and those stats helped him stay in office. Way to many people fall for that manipulating crap.

Offline nomosendero

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« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2006, 04:49:12 PM »
victorcharlie
I would like to talk to you sometime about the NWO. I used to read about it alot, I have not ruled it out, but I see alot that will screw up that plan.
Seriously, someday maybe I could get that chance, but I am too busy this time of the year for the typing we would do on that one. I do believe you are more up to speed on that right now than me so, maybe someday.

Echo4Lima
I agree about the tax cuts, as they have helped me. Reductions on current taxes are actually helping me pay for back taxes, a long story but true. And I have enjoyed the break in gun control, you cannot be totally
controlled without disarming the populace, so we can't really call this difference a smoke screen. And I must vote pro-life because of my belief & the difference is real for most anyway. If a person winds up lying about that later & I vote for them, that will be on them & not on me.

VC, maybe in a few months I could PM you if you don't mind.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline dukkillr

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« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2006, 06:06:29 PM »
Quote
As far as I'm concerned thats a big load of manipulating crap all that "rich getting richer, poor getting poorer"!! Look at the stats, MORE people have come UP in America economically than DOWN under Bush. Same when Reagan was in. Same thing after the failure of the 1st 2 years of Bill. After the mid terms he figured it out and those stats helped him stay in office. Way to many people fall for that manipulating crap.


It is true that the rich generally get richer, and the poor generally struggle.  It is impossible in America to get below a certain level because of bankruptcy and social nets.  The reason the rich get richer is simple, they have capital to invest.  Hell even if you just buy bonds you generally beat inflation, meaning that if you had money (were rich) you made money (got richer).  Does that make America wrong?  I don't think so, but others will only be happy when we have 70% tax brackets and complete socialism.

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2006, 06:29:49 PM »
Quote from: Echo4Lima
You all REALLY think theres no difference in the end result between Billary and W?

Go to the tax cuts.  With out listening to any retoric from either side, who got the tax cuts? Answer.....anybody that PAID taxes!  Sure, people that made more got more. Why?  'Cause THEY PAID MORE!!  The Lefties, including Billary, wanted to give a tax refund to people that DID NOT pay ANY taxes!!

Hows that work? Tax refund even though you didnt pay ANY?  Go figure...

As far as I'm concerned thats a big load of manipulating crap all that "rich getting richer, poor getting poorer"!!  Look at the stats, MORE people have come UP in America economically than DOWN under Bush.  Same when Reagan was in.  Same thing  after the failure of the 1st 2 years of Bill. After the mid terms he figured it out and those stats helped him stay in office. Way to many people fall for that manipulating crap.


Ever hear the story of Lyndon Johnson and how he took his orders from special interest money?  Would you believe that while we were in Vietnam, as well as fighting the cold war Nelson Rockefeller invested money in business in Russia?  Lets see, wasn't Rockefeller the CEO of Standard Oil?  So, I'm wrong, there is no special interest money influncing domestic or foreign policy?  I guess the people that give the money expect nothing in return?  The 9 trillion dollar debt is payable to nobody?  I guess the holder of the largest portions of this debt have no say in government policy?

Have you ever been to a movie and entered in the last quarter of the show?  Couldn't figure out a thing could you?  Then, you stayed in your seat and watched the movie from the beginning and slowly every thing came togather it all made sense.  

FDR said in politics, nothing happens by chance.

So, now we find ourselves in the middle of the movie.  We are to busy with everyday life to be overly concerned about those who have authority over us.  After all, we have the constitution don't we?  No need to worry about the fox that guards the hen house, especially if we don't know how many hens are in the coup or how many eggs they lay.

Madison warned us about the problems with big government.

Go back to the start of the movie.  READ, READ, READ.  Read the Articles of the confederation first.  If you read Madisons notes taken during the Madison debates, and if you read the Federalist papers, and then read the Constitution and study just a little history between the beginning and where we are now then the picture becomes a little clearer with each piece of the puzzle.  

One of Madisons biggest fears was the government of the people, by the people and for the people would be undermined by the same social class system in place in england at the time.  His fear, and the fear of the other framers of the constitution was that the same tyranny that his ancestors fled from would some how gain power in the United States.

Under who's authority does a government agency such as the EPA exist?  

A government agency assumes powers given by the constitution to the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches of government and defeats the purpose of balance of power that Madison and the framers of the constitution defined when they put togather the US constitution.  Read it, I didn't make this stuff up!

Read and study about other forms of government.  Did Caeser strive to rule the world?  Napoleon?  Hitler?  Didn't Stalin and Lenin also have a desire to rule the world?

Now take a fellow born to affluence, send him to the best schools and universities.  Educate them to a level most only dream of.   So, if a fellow like Hitler can do what he did with no education do you suppose that a really smart fellow born of power and money might surround himself with like minded people to serve their own purpose?  NO WAY!  THIS COULD NEVER HAPPEN!  

You and me are forbidden to have bank accounts out side the United States.  Corporations are not exempt from this.  Did you notice how many companies around the globe Theresa Heinz Kerry is prime investor in?  Wasn't it over 300 companies?  So, a US citizen can't have a bank account overseas, but all 300 companies can.  Am I the only one to see the connection here?

When I speak of the Rich, I don't mean the people who have some money and think their rich.....I'm talking about the likes of the Rockefellers, the Warburgs, and the Rothchilds.....the super wealthy.  It's the super wealthly that financed the war in Vietnam and made a very nice profit while doing it.

To understand what's happening, you have to cast off the version of history taught today in public schools.  You have to understand why the government needs to control your local school system from Washington and why Marx listed control of public schools the 10th plank of the Communist Manifesto.   You have to realize that everything you were taught was from someone who had an agenda and they taught you what they wanted you to know.  You have to understand that there are many different stories that make up our history, not just the one taught by Washington funded, government mandated schools who's curriculm is also set by guess who?  Washington D.C.  ......Good old Uncle Sam.......

Religion, and the belief in God was very prevalent in the early days of our country up through the 1960's.  Why do you think our government has changed it's position and thrown any mention of god or religion out of our school system?  Can a man serve two masters?



Think outside the box.  Think for yourself.

Want to know more about the conspiracy of the new world order?

Read this:  http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html

A few see the world like a monopoly game and won't be happy until they own it all!

[/quote] We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Quote
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline victorcharlie

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« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2006, 05:25:07 AM »
Quote from: TM7
VC....pretty much how view the world after 30 years of studying history and such.  Do you feel manipulated??......Yeah, just a little. I'm convinced that every fulcrum issue and conflict is created by  and directed by certain ambitious 'groups' through a Strausian or Hegelian system of control. The Revolutionary War was not adequately resolved--it just ended interestingly. BTW, I never understood banking, interest matters, and currency dynamics too well.....yeah... :wink: .

TM7


Rush Limbaugh has a term he uses for people who don't think for themselves...."Sheeple"......

Here, down south, we've had the "good ole boy" system in place for many generations.  My father called them "peanut aristrocrats".

Talk about entitlements, and the way to ensure the good ole boys maintained power was the Tobacco and peanut allotment system which gave the right to sell a certain amount of product on the open market.  No allotment then a farmer had to buy the right to sell it on the open market.  So, if my great grandfather had an allotment for say 5000 pounds he didn't have to grow anything himself but took a share from the farmer who grew it.  Hence the term "share cropper".  He could also buy or sell his allotment to and or from the highest bidder or pass it to his heirs.  

I guess the point I'm trying to make is the entitlement system can work to the advantage of those who have as well as for the have nots.

entitlements can and have worked both ways.
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater